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You are not born that way. It's a learned behavior, trait, feeling or whatever. Go to medical school for 8 years and then you can tell me about how you "feel" when you are born. Human minds dont process sexual orientation for years.
It is NOT a learned behavior, trait, feeling, or whatever. What med school did you go to? Who taught you that? Get your brain in gear and do some research yourself rather than blindly believing what you are told. Is that not the point of education? Going to medical school for 8 years does not raise you upon a pedestal from which you can now preach to the little people and demand that the deny the facts of their life's experience. It educates you in medicine and gives you the tools to help and heal. Is that what you are doing with this post, helping and healing? Do you not swear "to first do no harm?"
Gay women can and do reproduce as efficiently as straight women. There are no known cases of a man of any sexual orientation giving birth.
Is there an actual discussion of the proposition that everyone should become gay? I hadn't heard that. I was supposing that the issue was whether those who are gay should be able to marry on the same terms as those who are not.
Do you think that means that there are more gays now, or that the gays that have always been around are more willing to report that, yes, they are gay?
And should I assume that the same holds for straights? It was a matter of personal choice for them as well? Or were they hard-wired into their straightness and thus unable to make any other choice, even if it were a superior one?
It is not my expectation that your support for it will have anything to do with the existence or non-existence of an afterlife. I would otherwise commend your devotion to duty, but might inquire as to the process by which the specifics of that duty were derived and defined. In at least some sense, those seem to presume a right of veto over freely given protestations and refusals on the part of the one being ministered to. In many schools of thought, such claims for veto power are thought to be violations of interpersonal ethics...
hahahah, wow you really know a whole lot of nothing don't yah?
Let me now begin to address some objections of same-sex marriage and homosexuality. First I would like to address one of the most basic and common objections. That being that homosexuality is a choice. And with adequate love and treatment one can change their sexual preferences. I’ve heard many a time from all manner of people that homosexuality is a choice. That it is something that someone can freely choose to be or not to be. These same people point to what they believe are successful examples of conversion therapy to further illustrate their point that homosexuality is a choice. First I would like to tell these people that for homosexuality to be a choice almost defies logic. Why would anyone choose to be something which will consistently, and constantly make their lives harder for them in all spheres of life? Second I would like to say that no concrete scientific evidence supports the notion that homosexuality is a choice or mental disorder. Indeed in a large way we still do not fully understand all the mechanisms that determine a persons sexuality. And for every obscure study that a person can point to that attempts to show homosexuality is a choice, I can point to many more that says it is not. Like I said, we really have no definitive answer to what is the cause of sexual orientation. However we do have enough proof that many powerful, old, and respected organizations have come out against the notion that homosexuality is a choice and that there is anything wrong with it. For instance the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, etc have all come out with statements denying that homosexuality is a disease, that sexual orientation can be changed or that it needs to be changed. So what of “successful” examples of conversion therapy? Doesn’t this offer proof that homosexuality can be treated? Well no, not really because conversion therapy is anything but successful, in fact it is more often harmful to the persons seeking it. For instance in an article published in “Professional Psychology Research and Practice” it was found that only four percent of those who sought conversion therapy considered themselves successful with seventy-four percent experiencing “significant long-term (psychological) damage from the conversion therapy”. So when it comes to the argument that homosexuality is a choice and can therefore be treated, there is no proof to support this.
There is a difference betweeen intelligence and stupidity. I did not say they were stupid, just not intelligent in some areas - I am not intelligent for example when it comes to math, but I can hold my own in any religious discussion or discussion on American political and religious history. On President's being Christian, you prove my point, even our leading Christian politicians have different positions. Clinton is not a Christian? Humm...I did not know we were like Iran and had religious police deciding what is right and wrong. Maybe we should hang gays like in Iran, stone them to death like the Taliban or send them to camps like the Nazis. These are the inevitable ends of prejudice. Even some Republican presidential candidates support equal rights for gays. As for my religious beliefs, you have no idea where I stand; there is not room here to argue the Bible nor the private and public lives of the Founders, but take time and I mean time and read their private journals unedited; read the discussions and minutes of meetings; it is not so black and white; see what your opinions are then. True our Presidents have been Christian, but with viewpoints as varied as they can be; they use to be Christian and very religious and supported slavery. Equal rights are the American way, you cannot pick and choose. As for being gay being a choice that arguement is a hoax and a bad joke. Even the conservative Va. General Assembly in the 2006 session dismissed to his face the "expert" saying it was a choice - and he was the best they could come up with. The bill under discussion never made it out of committee. I feel confident that equal rights will come. My generation busted down the closet doors, the next generation will get married and will be able to work without fear of being out.
I didnt say it was. I said that being gay is a poor example to children. It come down to the fact that gay people do not contribute to the future in a reproductive way.
You mean being a "breeder"? HA! I know a few str8ts I wish would NOT contribute to society in this way!
It is a fallacy that gay men do not reproduce. Many gay men are married. If you only knew just how many gay men are sunday-go-to-meeting regulars and good fathers or just good ol' boys.
I think one of the biggest cover-ups in America, which so many so-called straight people buy into is that being gay means being out and proud, or just someone who is "obviously" gay. Limp wristed fa@@ots is just too stereotype.
The truth is the younger generation has the option to be out and proud. In the past (up to 1950's), most people felt society's pressure to marry and raise a family. I know of many WWII vets who were secretly gay.
Ever hear of the Prime Timers? Silverfox network? The gay's have as many subcategories as you can think of. Boy's Town is only a visible spectrum.
Most gays live in the middle section of the country, in small towns within your Baptist/conservative worldview confines. You just don't know about them because you can't "see" them.
Unless you have gaydar. I live in a small town and we have our share of pillars of society, who are married with kids and grandkids, who are secretly gay. Its funny and sad at the same time. And you can be damn sure they intend to stay that way.
Let me now begin to address some objections of same-sex marriage and homosexuality. First I would like to address one of the most basic and common objections. That being that homosexuality is a choice. And with adequate love and treatment one can change their sexual preferences. I’ve heard many a time from all manner of people that homosexuality is a choice. That it is something that someone can freely choose to be or not to be. These same people point to what they believe are successful examples of conversion therapy to further illustrate their point that homosexuality is a choice. First I would like to tell these people that for homosexuality to be a choice almost defies logic. Why would anyone choose to be something which will consistently, and constantly make their lives harder for them in all spheres of life? Second I would like to say that no concrete scientific evidence supports the notion that homosexuality is a choice or mental disorder. Indeed in a large way we still do not fully understand all the mechanisms that determine a persons sexuality. And for every obscure study that a person can point to that attempts to show homosexuality is a choice, I can point to many more that says it is not. Like I said, we really have no definitive answer to what is the cause of sexual orientation. However we do have enough proof that many powerful, old, and respected organizations have come out against the notion that homosexuality is a choice and that there is anything wrong with it. For instance the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, etc have all come out with statements denying that homosexuality is a disease, that sexual orientation can be changed or that it needs to be changed. So what of “successful” examples of conversion therapy? Doesn’t this offer proof that homosexuality can be treated? Well no, not really because conversion therapy is anything but successful, in fact it is more often harmful to the persons seeking it. For instance in an article published in “Professional Psychology Research and Practice” it was found that only four percent of those who sought conversion therapy considered themselves successful with seventy-four percent experiencing “significant long-term (psychological) damage from the conversion therapy”. So when it comes to the argument that homosexuality is a choice and can therefore be treated, there is no proof to support this.
Many very good points here. The issue concerning sexual orientation seems to come down to whether one has a "choice" or not. This seems to be the crux of the problem regarding every debate on this issue.
It is my hope that at some point in time there will be definitive scientific evidence that proves the point one way or the other. I have to believe that we are born a certain way and cannot change that fact. If this is proven scientifically then I would hope that sexual orientation would then become a non-issue and discrimination would end. I realize that there would still be some that would continue to fight the "battle" but hopefully the numbers would be negligable.
For the people who believe that it is a choice, I have one question for you. How many people do you know, including yourself, that have ever even considered for one second in their lives, "Hmmm, should I be a heterosexual or a homosexual?"
[quote=Gsd353;587741
let me now
address the objection that children aren’t as well adjusted in homosexual
households. People who argue against homosexual marriage in part due to
their assumption that homosexuals will raise damaged children, or their
children will end up homosexual, are mistaken. The American
Psychological Association, among many other respected organizations, have done
studies on the issue and concluded that there are no noticeable
differences between children from homosexual homes and children from homosexual
homes. The APA has issued a statement on their website stating: “Studies
comparing groups of children raised by homosexual and by heterosexual
parents find no developmental differences between the two groups of
children in four critical areas: their intelligence, psychological
adjustment, social adjustment, and popularity with friends. It is also
important to realize that a parent's sexual orientation does not dictate his or
her children's.” This brings me to my next point that homosexual
parents will cause their children to become more likely to be homosexual. If
we completely ignore the scientific evidence which, for the most part,
states that homosexuality has at least some origin biologically, then
this may be a valid argument, if it where true. However this is not the
case, as is stated in the above quotation. One recent statistic I saw
on the matter claims to show that homosexual tendency in heterosexual
homes is above half as that of children raised in homosexual homes, being
about five percent in heterosexual homes and about ten to twelve
percent in homosexual homes. Even if this were the case there could be a very
simply explanation for this. The homosexual population is estimated by
various groups to be at about ten percent. So this would explain the
difference in the number of children who profess to begin gay from
heterosexual homes as compared to homosexual homes. Given the stigmatization
that children from heterosexual homes may feel by coming out to their
parents isn’t it obvious that the numbers for their coming out would be
lower? Of course the numbers would be higher for children coming out to
their parents in homosexual household because they would feel more
comfortable doings so. And with the percent of homosexuals raised in
same-sex households being at about ten to twelve percent this puts it right
at the estimated percentage for the number of people who are homosexual.
So this too is not a valid objection to same-sex marriage
I'm not even going to justify a response to this.[/QUOTE]
You list study after study in support but this is like all other topics I can find just as many studies that state to the contrary. It is a matter of what 1 believes. If you lean one way you will use the studies in your favor. The only thing one can do is look at the studies on both sides and make -up there own mind. openly admitted I for 1 think they should not be allowed to raise children. Not due to them not being capable. But due to society in general not being ready for this.You can say it wont have an effect all you want but fact is Kids are kids on the playground. If you think for 1 min the child of gay parents wont get humiliated than you should not have kids anyway. Emotional scares are harder to fix. And even once grown up they still lie in slumber til they snap.
Yep it is society, being intolerant and sometimes bigoted. They are the ones that teach their children to tease these children because they have the same sex parents. To me, as long as they love their kids like I love mine, I really see no problem, and my kids know this.
Yep it is society, being intolerant and sometimes bigoted. They are the ones that teach their children to tease these children because they have the same sex parents. To me, as long as they love their kids like I love mine, I really see no problem, and my kids know this.
Unfortunately you are not a majority. Until that time comes I stand my ground.
Unfortunately you are not a majority. Until that time comes I stand my ground.
When people stop preaching the hate, it will stop.
What do you think happens when kids hear, it is a sin against god, it is unnatural, it is immoral? Do people actually think kids wont run with this stuff and use it against people?
I think if you are a true christian, what the kids need to be told is, Only god can judge, it isnt for us too. Nothing more.
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I live in a small town and we have our share of pillars of society, who are married with kids and grandkids, who are secretly gay. Its funny and sad at the same time. And you can be damn sure they intend to stay that way.
