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Old 06-18-2009, 06:16 PM
 
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
4,196 posts, read 5,843,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
The problem is, it attracts vermin.
as long as their protest is peaceful, they are within their rights. who cares.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,170 posts, read 19,194,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
Is that a nazi flag?!?!?! On the capitol steps?! Oh my God!! How can they condone that on government property?!
The picture is one I took at the rally on April 21, 2007, which was held in honor of Hitler's birthday. John Taylor Bowles, the nazi candidate for president (also from S.C., BTW), pointed out during his speech that one of the reasons for choosing S.C. for the gathering was the fact that the Confederate Flag still flies in front of the Capital.

Their rights to free speech are protected by the Constitution, and I would never abridge their freedom. That said, I also would not lose a lot of sleep if the earth opened under them and swallowed them without a trace.

The saddest part of the entire sordid affair was the children of the group, the youngest a little girl of about five who had been given a Confederate Flag to wave next to the big flag with the swastika. You have to get them early to warp them properly.

For my money, teaching a child to hate is unforgivable child abuse.

Here is a clip of the speech, if you are interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_PZlp1Ynk8
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mary phagan View Post
Thank god for South Carolina for keeping the memory and valor of the southern soldier alive.Thank you South Carolina may God bless your wonderful state
I had (from family records) about 25 ancestors who wore the Gray, or Butternut Brown, or Blue- as some of the original SC units' uniforms were (that didn't work so well); of those 8 died from battle.

I consider them ALL as misguided as the Germans who fought for the Third Reich.

You gotta learn from your mistakes, or you keep making the same ones.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:40 PM
 
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
4,196 posts, read 5,843,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
I had (from family records) about 25 ancestors who wore the Gray, or Butternut Brown, or Blue- as some of the original SC units' uniforms were (that didn't work so well); of those 8 died from battle.

I consider them ALL as misguided as the Germans who fought for the Third Reich.

You gotta learn from your mistakes, or you keep making the same ones.
you think that the majority of those confederate soldiers were wealthy enough to be slave owners? please.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:46 PM
 
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If you look at the number of people whose family (fathers, mothers, etc) members owned slaves, that number for SC was 50%.

For the South as a whole it was about 30%.

Lower percentages are sometimes quoted, BUT they only count the specific owners (Think cars in today's society. Your kid may not own one, but he/she sure uses the one in your name, as blacks were property back then) and not the family members who also resided in the households utilizing slave labor.

Don't tell me that you do not understand history? That you quite wrongly think the Civil War was not about slavery??

I would hope you know more than that.

The Civil War | PBS

If any of that uneducated crew is out there, here's an excellent resource.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:47 PM
 
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The confederate flag was the flag of the south, not the flag of slavery. It was some people or groups that took it up as a symbol for some other meaning.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:57 PM
 
Location: chattanooga
646 posts, read 801,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
I had (from family records) about 25 ancestors who wore the Gray, or Butternut Brown, or Blue- as some of the original SC units' uniforms were (that didn't work so well); of those 8 died from battle.

I consider them ALL as misguided as the Germans who fought for the Third Reich.

You gotta learn from your mistakes, or you keep making the same ones.
What was misguided?Only 2% of the confederate army were slave owners,the average soldier did not fight to save "our Peculiar institution" instead tthey fought to save their land from the invading army.States right was not a code word for slavery,John C. Calhoun died before the war but his belief in nullification was where states could void federal laws that states thought were unconstitional.Any state in this newly formed union would be able to secede just the same.This country was built on secession
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:59 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 7,999,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsldcd View Post
The confederate flag was the flag of the south, not the flag of slavery. It was some people or groups that took it up as a symbol for some other meaning.
Solidly wrong:

American Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Main articles: Origins of the American CivilWar and Timeline of events leading to the American CivilWar
The coexistence of a slave-owning South with an increasingly anti-slavery North made conflict likely, if not inevitable. Lincoln did not propose federal laws against slavery where it already existed, but he had, in his 1858 House Divided Speech, expressed a desire to "arrest the further spread of it, and place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate extinction."[1] Much of the political battle in the 1850s focused on the expansion of slavery into the newly created territories.[2][3][4] All of the organized territories were likely to become free-soil states, which increased the Southern movement toward secession. Both North and South assumed that if slavery could not expand it would wither and die.[5][6][7]
Southern fears of losing control of the federal government to antislavery forces, and Northern resentment of the influence that the Slave Power already wielded in government, brought the crisis to a head in the late 1850s. Sectional disagreements over the morality of slavery, the scope of democracy and the economic merits of free labor vs. slave plantations caused the Whig and "Know-Nothing" parties to collapse, and new ones to arise (the Free Soil Party in 1848, the Republicans in 1854, the Constitutional Union in 1860). In 1860, the last remaining national political party, the Democratic Party, split along sectional lines.
Both North and South were influenced by the ideas of Thomas Jefferson. Southerners emphasized, in connection with slavery, the states' rights[8][9][10] ideas mentioned in Jefferson's Kentucky Resolutions. Northerners ranging from the abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison to the moderate Republican leader Abraham Lincoln[11] emphasized Jefferson's declaration that all men are created equal. Lincoln mentioned this proposition in his Gettysburg Address.
Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens said[12] that slavery was the chief cause of secession[13] in his Cornerstone Speech shortly before the war. After Confederate defeat, Stephens became one of the most ardent defenders of the Lost Cause.[14] There was a striking contrast[13][15] between Stephens' post-war states' rights assertion that slavery did not cause secession[14] and his pre-war Cornerstone Speech. Confederate President Jefferson Davis also switched from saying the war was caused by slavery to saying that states' rights was the cause. While Southerners often used states' rights arguments to defend slavery, sometimes roles were reversed, as when Southerners demanded national laws to defend their interests with the Gag Rule and the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850. On these issues, it was Northerners who wanted to defend the rights of their states.[16]
Almost all of the inter-regional crises involved slavery, starting with debates on the three-fifths clause and a twenty year extension of the African slave trade in the Constitutional Convention of 1787. There was controversy over adding the slave state of Missouri to the Union that led to the Missouri Compromise of 1820, the Nullification Crisis over the Tariff of 1828 (although the tariff was low after 1846,[17] and even the tariff issue was related to slavery),[18][19][20] the gag rule that prevented discussion in Congress of petitions for ending slavery from 1835–1844, the acquisition of Texas as a slave state in 1845 and Manifest Destiny as an argument for gaining new territories where slavery would become an issue after the Mexican–American War (1846–1848), which resulted in the Compromise of 1850.[21] The Wilmot Proviso was an attempt by Northern politicians to exclude slavery from the territories conquered from Mexico. The extremely popular antislavery novel Uncle Tom’s Cabin (1852) by Harriet Beecher Stowe greatly increased Northern opposition to the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850.[22][23]
The 1854 Ostend Manifesto was an unsuccessful Southern attempt to annex Cuba as a slave state. The Second Party System broke down after passage of the Kansas-Nebraska Act in 1854, which replaced the Missouri Compromise ban on slavery with popular sovereignty, allowing the people of a territory to vote for or against slavery. The Bleeding Kansas controversy over the status of slavery in the Kansas Territory included massive vote fraud perpetrated by Missouri pro-slavery Border Ruffians. Vote fraud led pro-South Presidents Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan to make attempts (including support for the pro-slavery Lecompton Constitution) to admit Kansas as a slave state.[24] Violence over the status of slavery in Kansas erupted with the Wakarusa War,[25] the Sacking of Lawrence,[26] the caning of Republican Charles Sumner by the Southerner Preston Brooks,[27][28] the Pottawatomie Massacre,[29] the Battle of Black Jack, the Battle of Osawatomie and the Marais des Cygnes massacre. The 1857 Supreme Court Dred Scott decision allowed slavery in the territories even where the majority opposed slavery, including Kansas. The Lincoln-Douglas debates of 1858 included Northern Democratic leader Stephen A. Douglas' Freeport Doctrine. This doctrine was an argument for thwarting the Dred Scott decision which, along with Douglas' defeat of the Lecompton Constitution, divided the Democratic Party between North and South. Northern abolitionist John Brown's raid at Harpers Ferry Armory was an attempt to incite slave insurrections in 1859.[30] The North-South split in the Democratic Party in 1860 due to the Southern demand for a slave code for the territories completed polarization of the nation between North and South.
Other factors include sectionalism (caused by the growth of slavery in the lower South while slavery was gradually phased out in Northern states) and economic differences between North and South, although most modern historians disagree with the extreme economic determinism of historian Charles Beard and argue that Northern and Southern economies were largely complementary.[31] There was the polarizing effect of slavery that split the largest religious denominations (the Methodist, Baptist and Presbyterian churches)[32] and controversy caused by the worst cruelties of slavery (whippings, mutilations and families split apart). The fact that seven immigrants out of eight settled in the North, plus the fact that twice as many whites left the South for the North as vice versa, contributed to the South's defensive-aggressive political behavior.[33]
The election of Lincoln in 1860 was the final trigger for secession.[34] Efforts at compromise, including the "Corwin Amendment" and the "Crittenden Compromise", failed.
Southern leaders feared that Lincoln would stop the expansion of slavery and put it on a course toward extinction. The slave states, which had already become a minority in the House of Representatives, were now facing a future as a perpetual minority in the Senate and Electoral College against an increasingly powerful North."

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Old 06-18-2009, 07:00 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 7,999,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mary phagan View Post
What was misguided?Only 2% of the confederate army were slave owners,the average soldier did not fight to save "our Peculiar institution" instead tthey fought to save their land from the invading army.States right was not a code word for slavery,John C. Calhoun died before the war but his belief in nullification was where states could void federal laws that states thought were unconstitional.Any state in this newly formed union would be able to secede just the same.This country was built on secession
Suggest you learn (or relearn) basic history.


http://www.pbs.org/civilwar/


Excellent resource for that.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:01 PM
 
11,155 posts, read 15,705,136 times
Reputation: 4209
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefinalsay View Post
\


good for them. standing up to the PC terrorists.
At what point do things stop being politically correct and start just being correct?

I mean, I've heard that PC line used for every argument from blacks rights to women's rights to needing to conserve the world in which we live to justifying hate speech.

It just seems like people who want their freedom the loudest always want to use it to oppress somebody else's freedom.
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