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Of course not! But just like an in-your-face rabid christian or whatever, people should not be surprised when they receive negative attention. I don't want to be around either of those people.
But at the same time, I have not gone anywhere with my wife and really been focused on our safety or what other people would think...I think a lot of being self-conscious does stem from within.
Then again, it may really also depend on where you live...
To the gay and lesbian members exclusively, I was wondering how the (lack of) progress on equality has shaped your perception of being an American citizen. I will say that I increasingly find myself ashamed to be an American, and yes, it is largely because of issues surrounding homosexuality, as well as other forms of bigotry that continue to plague American culture and politics. I know the road to progress is slow and painful, but I find myself reluctantly turning my back on this place. It reeks of ignorance and antiquated mores that continues to be passed from generation to generation. Even with the little breadcrumbs of equality gay and lesbians have been able to achieve, we must still deal with the fact that we are not, and probably never will be, social and cultural equals to our hetero counterparts. We are the minority that all other groups continue to have a free pass to mock and ridicule. We have a president that refuses to act in our behalf, despite our endearing support for his campaign to presidency. We are continually bamboozled, hoodwinked, and led astray. Is anyone else tired of being trampled over, disregarded, and continually treated like crap?
We have had how many gay singers either win, or come in second on American idol, we have had gay senators and congressmen and gay marriage in a few states, and you come here and whine and complain that because you are not universally accepted that America is bigoted, and you are "ashamed to be an American"?
At least you may have learned a lesson, when you play the victim, and put your hopes and dreams in the hands of one person, 0bama, and allow him him to pour honey into your ear on your way to the polls, do not be surprised when he lets you down, it should teach you to not trust in complete strangers to take care of you.
There are fat, ugly people, and people with dwarfism who have seen their share of bias and bigotry, the difference with being gay from these people, is no one knows you are gay unless you tell them you are gay. Sorry, but no one is universally excepted in this world.
Ok I just have a few questions.
Other then marrying what is it you cant do being gay.
If you think every person should just except you for who you are that wont happen there is no law for that and their is no reason to have one. You can eat sleep and live any where you want just as straight people do. You can go to any bar you want no laws against that. You can have any job you want, that is already protected gay or not its a individual right assume you are qualified etc. You have the right to protect your life via gun ownership, you have all the rights a individual has. White, black, gay, straight, asian etc. If you want everyone in the nation to say their must be new gay TV shows that is not a right it is entertainment. If you want to walk down the street with a lover and kiss and make out good luck no law against that. But don't be surprised if some don't like it. Just as most people cant just have sex in public straight or gay mostly because of kids.
I also don't understand how who you have sex with is some how a right. What if your bi, is that a choice and bi people can marry a man and woman they can LOVE both. What rights to bi people have, or people who would like to be public about their sex lives, or the people who have bdsm sex lives. I see no laws written against gay people or sex for that matter, and that might vary from state to state. I'm sure having sex with animals is probably against the law somewhere. I dont see people asking you when you come into a bar and the owner asks everyone's sexual preferences. You dont fill out a drivers license and they ask do you like women or men or both.
So show me where you believe you have been in EYES OF THE LAW not gotten a fair shake.
I might not like gay people but I believe in liberty and freedom and wouldn't write laws against individuals for that. I don't hate gay people I just think you want everything your way and every tv station and everyone to just become so open about your sexual choices as hetro's are in our society. Frankly I think you are just jealous that being straight is the norm.
No law is going to do that sorry. That would be denying the free speech and thoughts of everyone else if need to make a law on what the norm of society is. That is thought police idealogy, and if someone wants to dislike something they have that choice just as you have the choice to except it and or have your own ideas.
So again can you answer those questions or will you continue to ignore them.
Society has deemed social norms... they aren't even because of religious groups. If someone likes to chain up their lovers and have sex, use cuffs, collars and other "dirty" ideas that is not the norm. Some people even have lifestyles around this type of relationships but that is not the norm. You cant just pull a "willing sex slave" on a collar and leash down the street and think you wont hear freak, sicko, and or other names. So I ask you freedom comes at a price you cant always be who you are because society has norms which over time become different norms. Until then the bdsm and other "strange" sexual preferences will have to stay in the bedroom just as sometimes gay's should keep it in the bedroom because that really has nothing to do with RIGHTS!! Rights are your life and your property and that is about it.
You have no right to sex, other peoples lives or other peoples minds, you have no right to other peoples property thou some how the government takes your property and gives it to someone else. You even have no right to MARRY, in theory I see no law that says it is a right for anyone. You have to apply to be married, and even then if your from different churches even the church might not let you marry until you convert. So when it comes to marriage even straight people who have different beliefs who want to marry and in love have to play the GAME. You want to get married start a gay religious church and get married, the freedom of religion protects your marriage by law. Find the loophole and will win over America based on the constitution.
Last edited by LibertyandJusticeforAll; 06-19-2009 at 02:00 PM..
We have had how many gay singers either win, or come in second on American idol, we have had gay senators and congressmen and gay marriage in a few states, and you come here and whine and complain that because you are not universally accepted that America is bigoted, and you are "ashamed to be an American"?
At least you may have learned a lesson, when you play the victim, and put your hopes and dreams in the hands of one person, 0bama, and allow him him to pour honey into your ear on your way to the polls, do not be surprised when he lets you down, it should teach you to not trust in complete strangers to take care of you.
There are fat, ugly people, and people with dwarfism who have seen their share of bias and bigotry, the difference with being gay from these people, is no one knows you are gay unless you tell them you are gay. Sorry, but no one is universally excepted in this world.
This, coming from what I would presume to be a heterosexual, does not surprise me.
Of course not! But just like an in-your-face rabid christian or whatever, people should not be surprised when they receive negative attention. I don't want to be around either of those people.
Ok, I see what you're saying. There are those that are over-the-top flamboyant simply to cause a spectacle, which I also avoid. Always remember, though, that just because somebody has feminine mannerisms in the case of males or masculine mannerisms in the case of females, does not always mean they are trying to be "in your face".
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4
But at the same time, I have not gone anywhere with my wife and really been focused on our safety or what other people would think...I think a lot of being self-conscious does stem from within.
Perhaps it's because you haven't had to. We always have to. When you are out with your wife, do you think you would ever potentially be harrassed/assaulted for something as simple as standing too close or showing acceptable displays of affection? Or if you go to a car dealership to buy a new car together? Or anything else that married couples typically do together?
I assure you, the need for LGBT's to be more cautious has nothing to do with self consciousness, but everything to do with societal intolerance.
Ok I just have a few questions.
Other then marrying what is it you cant do being gay.
If you think every person should just except you for who you are that wont happen there is no law for that and their is no reason to have one. You can eat sleep and live any where you want just as straight people do. You can go to any bar you want no laws against that. You can have any job you want, that is already protected gay or not its a individual right assume you are qualified etc. You have the right to protect your life via gun ownership, you have all the rights a individual has. White, black, gay, straight, asian etc. If you want everyone in the nation to say their must be new gay TV shows that is not a right it is entertainment. If you want to walk down the street with a lover and kiss and make out good luck no law against that. But don't be surprised if some don't like it. Just as most people cant just have sex in public straight or gay mostly because of kids.
I also don't understand how who you have sex with is some how a right. What if your bi, is that a choice and bi people can marry a man and woman they can LOVE both. What rights to bi people have, or people who would like to be public about their sex lives, or the people who have bdsm sex lives. I see no laws written against gay people or sex for that matter, and that might vary from state to state. I'm sure having sex with animals is probably against the law somewhere. I dont see people asking you when you come into a bar and the owner asks everyone's sexual preferences. You dont fill out a drivers license and they ask do you like women or men or both.
So show me where you believe you have been in EYES OF THE LAW not gotten a fair shake.
I might not like gay people but I believe in liberty and freedom and wouldn't write laws against individuals for that. I don't hate gay people I just think you want everything your way and every tv station and everyone to just become so open about your sexual choices as hetro's are in our society. Frankly I think you are just jealous that being straight is the norm.
No law is going to do that sorry. That would be denying the free speech and thoughts of everyone else if need to make a law on what the norm of society is. That is thought police idealogy, and if someone wants to dislike something they have that choice just as you have the choice to except it and or have your own ideas.
So again can you answer those questions or will you continue to ignore them.
Society has deemed social norms... they aren't even because of religious groups. If someone likes to chain up their lovers and have sex, use cuffs, collars and other "dirty" ideas that is not the norm. Some people even have lifestyles around this type of relationships but that is not the norm. You cant just pull a "willing sex slave" on a collar and leash down the street and think you wont hear freak, sicko, and or other names. So I ask you freedom comes at a price you cant always be who you are because society has norms which over time become different norms. Until then the bdsm and other "strange" sexual preferences will have to stay in the bedroom just as sometimes gay's should keep it in the bedroom because that really has nothing to do with RIGHTS!! Rights are your life and your property and that is about it.
You have no right to sex, other peoples lives or other peoples minds, you have no right to other peoples property thou some how the government takes your property and gives it to someone else. You even have no right to MARRY, in theory I see no law that says it is a right for anyone. You have to apply to be married, and even then if your from different churches even the church might not let you marry until you convert. So when it comes to marriage even straight people who have different beliefs who want to marry and in love have to play the GAME. You want to get married start a gay religious church and get married, the freedom of religion protects your marriage by law. Find the loophole and will win over America based on the constitution.
I have no idea what this post is trying to achieve. You say you don't like gay people and our "sexual choices," and that we are "jealous" of heteros? Really?
Ok, I see what you're saying. There are those that are over-the-top flamboyant simply to cause a spectacle, which I also avoid. Always remember, though, that just because somebody has feminine mannerisms in the case of males or masculine mannerisms in the case of females, does not always mean they are trying to be "in your face".
Perhaps it's because you haven't had to. We always have to. When you are out with your wife, do you think you would ever potentially be harrassed/assaulted for something as simple as standing too close or showing acceptable displays of affection? Or if you go to a car dealership to buy a new car together? Or anything else that married couples typically do together?
I assure you, the need for LGBT's to be more cautious has nothing to do with self consciousness, but everything to do with societal intolerance.
Ok, I see what you're saying. There are those that are over-the-top flamboyant simply to cause a spectacle, which I also avoid. Always remember, though, that just because somebody has feminine mannerisms in the case of males or masculine mannerisms in the case of females, does not always mean they are trying to be "in your face".
Perhaps it's because you haven't had to. We always have to. When you are out with your wife, do you think you would ever potentially be harrassed/assaulted for something as simple as standing too close or showing acceptable displays of affection? Or if you go to a car dealership to buy a new car together? Or anything else that married couples typically do together?
I assure you, the need for LGBT's to be more cautious has nothing to do with self consciousness, but everything to do with societal intolerance.
Of course not...I would not say that they are necessarily doing that on purpose or even that doing that on purpose is any reason to be discriminated against.
I am saying that I can understand not wanting to be around or appreciating anyone who is over-the-top about anything, including religion, animal rights, environment...it just gets old and annoying. Especially those who constantly wear a chip on their shoulder.
We have gone car shopping, house shopping, formal company dinner parties...we are both really successful professionals who have not had to hide ourselves to climb the ladder.
[Btw, I have had gay people from other places bash Texas for being an intolerant and horrible place (most of whom have never been here)...I am sure parts of it are, but clearly you can live a happy and normal life free of the constant harrassment people seem to think exists against gays everywhere. This is why I'll always be a Texan first and and American second.]
Of course not...I would not say that they are necessarily doing that on purpose or even that doing that on purpose is any reason to be discriminated against.
I am saying that I can understand not wanting to be around or appreciating anyone who is over-the-top about anything, including religion, animal rights, environment...it just gets old and annoying. Especially those who constantly wear a chip on their shoulder.
We have gone car shopping, house shopping, formal company dinner parties...we are both really successful professionals who have not had to hide ourselves to climb the ladder.
[Btw, I have had gay people from other places bash Texas for being an intolerant and horrible place (most of whom have never been here)...I am sure parts of it are, but clearly you can live a happy and normal life free of the constant harrassment people seem to think exists against gays everywhere. This is why I'll always be a Texan first and and American second.]
Wait a minute...I thought you were straight and married to a woman?
I lived in Dallas,Texas for 10 years. I have to agree. The metro areas are pretty cosmopolitan and accepting. Now, go out to east or west texas, and things change drastically, lol.
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