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Old 09-18-2009, 09:07 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,878 posts, read 2,064,161 times
Reputation: 326

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Those are the conditions that created the dustbowls in other states in the 30's. No rain, nothing planted to keep the soil down...the environmental impact of shutting off that water will likely prove far worse than the deaths of 25 young fish.

Now if the thousands or millions of salmon and other fish living there rely on 25 young delta smelt, I think, we'd have already seen a collapse.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:10 AM
 
4 posts, read 6,594 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
I know that if you think climate change is a hoax, you have no background in marine eco-systems and environmental science. Some of the people leading the environmental call against the assault on marine eco-systems are, by and large, lifelong fishermen.

Thoreau's Legacy Author Interview - David Beebe

I'm sorry that you are living in such deep denial that you must accuse environmentalists and climate change scientists of being "full of BS and living in fear of armageddon." The environment can no longer "adapt to stress." It had no problem, by and large, adapting to the effects of the plow, and very low levels of mining and deforestation. But it cannot adapt to massive mountaintop removal, the gutting of trillions of pounds of natural gas, oil and water. Neither can it "adapt" to the trillions of pounds of toxic chemicals that have been poured into it over the past 60 years. The 1950s, the beginning of the chemical assault on Nature, was the watershed moment. The chain not only will not, but simply CANNOT withstand the toxicity as this level. For chrissakes, it's simple common sense.

The evidence is piling up quickly. We can scream about it being a liberal "hoax" and stick our heads in the sand. But then we leave a ruined planet to the next generation. Count on it.
My, God. You wrap yourself in this paradigm that you can't see the bigger picture. IT IS ABOUT THE MONEY AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE ABOUT THE MONEY! Follow the money! Environmentalists, you are being played for fools! It is not about the cutesy (as Hesster would put it) little fish. While both sides are fighting for the "moral" right, the REAL bad guys are waiting for the dust (no pun intended) to settle. What happens to these farms while they wait for relief? They are foreclosed upon. Are the banks going to sit on the land? No. They'll sell. And to who? Land developers. Will the land developers get the water? Yes. Why? Because the farmland of the Central Valley encompasses 42,000 square miles. How many houses, apartments, condos, can fit? Millions. If the land developers don't pad the pockets of the politicians, think of all that tax revenue that can be added to the city and county coffers. I've seen this happen over and over again in the states I've lived in and on the specific parcels I've sought to buy, but didn't because of wetland restrictions. But, lo, two years later a developer has made that parcel into a concrete jungle. So then, the fish loses no matter what. What would your rather see, lush farmland or concrete jungle? That land isn't going to sit idle. It will be sold. And I wouldn't be surprised if Pelosi's husband is one of them that is waiting.
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,801 posts, read 41,008,695 times
Reputation: 62194
If you can't get a steak, will you eat spaghetti? You mean to tell me the big fish will die if one little fish isn't part of their diet?
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Old 09-20-2009, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Indiana
2,046 posts, read 1,574,328 times
Reputation: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geechie North View Post
And of course, the business community of Central Californai is the ultimate arbiter of Mother Nature......................
If mother nature gave them the power then they must be the arbiter. what if mother nature gave the power to the salmon to eat all the smelt would that be ok with you.enviromental loonies have been scare of changes in nature but this has been going on for millions of years this is nothing new animals have disapear new one born and the crazy enviromental loonies have nothing to do with it
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Old 09-25-2009, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Mountain Home, ID
1,956 posts, read 3,635,568 times
Reputation: 2435
Quote:
Originally Posted by susan09 View Post
It is not about the cutesy (as Hesster would put it) little fish.
What the hell are you talking about? I try and catch as many 'cutesy little fish' as I can every time I go fishing, which is as often as I can get.

I stand by what I said, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:45 PM
 
4 posts, read 6,594 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster View Post
What the hell are you talking about? I try and catch as many 'cutesy little fish' as I can every time I go fishing, which is as often as I can get.

I stand by what I said, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth.
I'm sorry! So you are a predator on the top of the food chain! I was getting worried that you and others like you dread turning on your faucet wondering how many pumps your water went through before it reached your sink.

I didn't say you said those words. The inflection of your blogs suggested it.

And, by the way, I really think it may be Feinstein's husband, Richard Blum, that is waiting for the dust to settle. The rationale for her recent vote was absurd.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,747,599 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
If you can't get a steak, will you eat spaghetti? You mean to tell me the big fish will die if one little fish isn't part of their diet?
Possibly.
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Le Grand, Ca
858 posts, read 1,501,322 times
Reputation: 233
This **** is ridiculous. The long term effects of no water to those farms will out weigh the effects of letting the little guppy die by 10 fold. Just wait and see. The liberals are also digging there own grave with things like this. This makes me want to change my major to Environment science to bring some common sense to the Environmentalist world.
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:28 AM
 
Location: In Transition
1,637 posts, read 1,909,840 times
Reputation: 931
Although I don't have a problem with the ESA, a big problem is the environmentalists don't realize that, as Voltaire said, "the perfect is the enemy of the good". As long as the environmentalists go for saving every living last creature with absolutely no concern for the millions of people affected then they will continue to have a growing backlash against their goals.

I mean this crap is ridiculous! The absurdity of cutting off ALL WATER from an infrastructure existing for dozens of years which millions of people rely upon is mind boggling. The environmentalists then tell all of those affected "tough for you, the water will be totally cut off and you'll just have to figure out what to do about it" in just a matter of one court ruling. No attempt to work on a way to continue to deliver water and save the smelt, nothing. It's all the fish or nothing. It's the same as the Center of Biological Diversity preventing controlled burns in the Angeles National Forest through lawsuits and then when the devastating Station Fire broke out, they said "too bad, deal with it". It's the same when Feinstein wanted to close off large portions of the Mohave desert to build green power plants(!) It's always the environmentalist "100% for plants / animals and 0% for humans - deal with it" attitude which makes resentment grow and grow.

Once people, like farmer Democrats who vote for the exact same people who support the environmentalists which puts them out of business, actually grow a brain and wake up / realize their precious Democratic party may (gasp) may not have their best interest at heart (but still wants their vote!), the backlash will be severe. And the original goal of conservation will be blown away by all the millions of enemies that the enviromentalists produced though their misguided idea of controlling large populations through a small set of judges / legal tricks.

Here's what the environmentalists don't get. Sure they have money and can dictate policy through lawsuits. But what happens to those affected? What happens when they affect millions of people. What happens when all of those unemployed start looking at politicians who say "the Endangered Species Act not only has taken away all of your jobs, but also puts national security at risk by subverting the food supply"? Think all those endangered species will continue to be saved?
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Cali
3,955 posts, read 7,198,531 times
Reputation: 2308
This will turn the whole San Joaquin valley into a desert! It will change the whole climate too as well. We're really in for big time drought in a few years if they don't turn that water back on. Not to mention that more food will have to be imported(ie.China).

This is a ecological, economic, and national security issue!!!!!
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