Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:32 AM
 
46,943 posts, read 25,964,420 times
Reputation: 29434

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinkieMcGee View Post
As someone that's somewhat connected to this issue Obama is handling things as they should be handled.
Yup.

There seems to be a US crowd who thinks foreign policy is a two-option game: Bomb or appease. It's a little bit more complicated than that.

For one thing, there's a genuinely good chance that Ahmadinejad actually won the bloody election. The Iranian city dwellers may be ready for reform, but the rural semi-literates are likely to vote for whoever their preacher tells them to.

The "revolt, you guys" plot device was tried in the aftermath of Gulf War I when Bush the Elder suggested the Iraqis rise up. The Kurds and Shiites did. They were slaughtered. I hope a few hundred thousand ghosts visit Krauthammer's bedroom tonight.

We're back in the reality-based world that the neo-cons so hated.

Reality is that Ahmadinejad is highly likely to come out on top of this. Reality is that if we start bombing (mostly Shiite) Iran, the delicate truce we have with Shiites in Iraq will blow up right in our faces.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Highland, CA (formerly Newark, NJ)
6,183 posts, read 6,071,320 times
Reputation: 2150
By golly, it's a shame Dubya didn't liberate em like he did with tha Iraqis.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:34 AM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,943,270 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
I guess you completely missed the resolution that Congress passed yesterday siding with the dissidents?

Obama says hands off. McCain says show the Iranians some support.

Turns out, Congress votes in a show of support.

Apparently Congress agrees with McCain. You must have missed that part.
My wife and I voted to support the dissidents too. Has about the same effect.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:35 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,448,814 times
Reputation: 22752
There is nothing wrong with showing some support . . . but as a nation, I think all our leaders need to be very circumspect about any statements made in re: to Iran. That is not our fight over there . . . and if we Americans have learned ANYTHING from Iraq . . . it should be that Democracy needs to be a grassroots movement - it is not something that another country can give someone else's citizens.

Iran is ruled w/ an iron fist under a theocratic leader, who is not only the country's supreme leader, but also their spiritual leader. It is up to the citizens of that country to figure out how they wish to live in such a regime. Their religious beliefs are all tied up w/ their political regime, so no way there is some simple solution to their situation.

They have to figure it out for themselves and the worst thing Obama - or any other leader in this country - could do would be to saber rattle here in the USA right now.

I notice that Europe has kept pretty quiet, as well.

I also noticed that at the end of Khomeni's big announcement the other day, hundreds of thousands of people shouted death to America, death to UK and death to Israel . . . so there may be vast numbers of people who are dissatisfied w/ the regime they are living under right now . . . but I don't think there are vast numbers of citizens who respect and/or admire us here in the good ole U. S. of A - and want us interferring in their country's destiny.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:38 AM
 
2,661 posts, read 2,902,531 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Ah, boys and girls do you have any clue who Mir Hossein Mousavi is?

Do you think that Mousavi is some sort of Persian Mikhail Gorbachev?

Just to bring you folks up to speed, Hossein Mousavi is the former Prime Minister of Iran, and was one of four candidates approved by the Council of Guardians! Mousavi (400 others were denied approval to appear on the ballot). As Prime Minister, Mousavi initiated Iran's nuclear program and during this campaign defending that very same program!

Yes, he's better by hairs that Ahmadinejad but only by hairs.

This isn't a protest for regime change, it is a protest for change in the administration.

While in the end this may lead to a drastic change in Iran, I wouldn't bet the rent money on that prospect. The protest aren't demanding an end to the rule of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, it is not demanding the abolishment of the Guardian Council.

This is not East Germany or any of the former eastern block countries, read a little bit, learn a bunch more, and you mind sound like you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Start here:

Is Iran ripe for revolution? - By Daniel Byman - Slate Magazine
There are some youtube videos today where the people seem ready for a regime change. "Death to Khamaenei" was being shouted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:45 AM
 
3,292 posts, read 4,472,574 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
There are some youtube videos today where the people seem ready for a regime change. "Death to Khamaenei" was being shouted.
The protest movement doesn't even know what it wants. All it knows right now is that they're not represented under the present administration.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:45 AM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,943,270 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
There is nothing wrong with showing some support . . . but as a nation, I think all our leaders need to be very circumspect about any statements made in re: to Iran. That is not our fight over there . . . and if we Americans have learned ANYTHING from Iraq . . . it should be that Democracy needs to be a grassroots movement - it is not something that another country can give someone else's citizens.

Iran is ruled w/ an iron fist under a theocratic leader, who is not only the country's supreme leader, but also their spiritual leader. It is up to the citizens of that country to figure out how they wish to live in such a regime. Their religious beliefs are all tied up w/ their political regime, so no way there is some simple solution to their situation.

They have to figure it out for themselves and the worst thing Obama - or any other leader in this country - could do would be to saber rattle here in the USA right now.

I notice that Europe has kept pretty quiet, as well.

I also noticed that at the end of Khomeni's big announcement the other day, hundreds of thousands of people shouted death to America, death to UK and death to Israel . . . so there may be vast numbers of people who are dissatisfied w/ the regime they are living under right now . . . but I don't think there are vast numbers of citizens who respect and/or admire us here in the good ole U. S. of A - and want us interferring in their country's destiny.
Excellent post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:46 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,032,019 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
There are some youtube videos today where the people seem ready for a regime change. "Death to Khamaenei" was being shouted.
Well there you have it, a Youtube video! Hell who needs a CIA.

By the way how many Youtube clips did you see calling for the death of Rasajani or Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:48 AM
 
Location: here.
1,359 posts, read 2,291,156 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miborn View Post
More than 1.5 million protesters took to the streets of Tehran on Monday, marking the largest anti-regime demonstration Iran has seen since the final days of the shah in early 1979.

Now, �people are waiting for international support,� Mohseni wrote.

That support wasn�t coming � at least not from President Barack Obama's administration in Washington.

"It is up to Iranians to make decisions about who Iran's leaders will be. We respect Iranian sovereignty and want to avoid the United States being the issue inside of Iran," Obama said during the weekend.



Conservative commentator Charles Krauthammer said, �Our only hope of changing the nuclear issue with Iran is not in the negotiations. It would be in the change of regime


Newsmax.com - Iranians Betrayed by Obama Administration (http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/iran_election_protest/2009/06/16/225615.html - broken link)


Obama Erases Pro-Democracy Money for Iran


Even as Ayatollah Khamenei blasted the United States for fomenting unrest in a defiant Friday prayer address in Tehran, President Obama has kept silent, focusing instead on domestic policy.



Obama spent more time with TV personality Stephen Colbert, taping a segment for a comedy show, than he did addressing the turmoil in Iran this week.




Newsmax has learned that the Obama administration also has zeroed out funding for pro-democracy programs inside Iran from the State Department budget for fiscal 2010, just as protests in Iran are ramping up.



Newsmax.com - Obama Erases Pro-Democracy Money for Iran (http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/Obama_Democracy_Iran/2009/06/19/227155.html - broken link)
there is not much of a diffference between Ahmadinejacket and Mousavi. its oranges vs oranges.... Mousavi is not that great of a leader...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2009, 10:49 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,672,493 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinkieMcGee View Post
The protest movement doesn't even know what it wants. All it knows right now is that they're not represented under the present administration.
How would you really know? Because that's what Obama told you you must believe?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:00 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top