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Old 06-23-2009, 09:27 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,154,953 times
Reputation: 6195

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I work for P&G. I work in the flagship plant. NO Union where I work and yet we retire quite well off. We have powerful benefits. NO UNION dues.
As some have mentioned laws and merit trump a union rep everytime.
A big company like P&G *has* to become competitive and offer what a union would offer.

You may not have to pay union dues, but you live under your boss's laws, and you stay employed according to your boss's whim.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:28 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,154,953 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Public schools enjoy poor accountability.. Thats my issue with public schools.
Wow. "Accountaibility" is kind of vague. Can you give examples please?

Accountability for money? Accountability for a child's education?
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,221,236 times
Reputation: 6553
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
No, just as many variables go into judgment of a teacher in a private school as in a public school -- sometimes more so; a teacher can be a star and a draw -- kind of a celebrity....if a school public or private doesnt want to fire a teacher they wont, just believe it because it's true.
The difference being that a private school can and will fire under achievers. Public schools once tenure is achieved is stuck with the dude for the most part.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:38 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,154,953 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The difference being that a private school can and will fire under achievers. Public schools once tenure is achieved is stuck with the dude for the most part.
Private schools wont necessarily fire a bad teacher. They committed to hire them, invested money in them, constantly send them to classes, etc. A public school teacher that a child or parent isnt satisfied with -- move the child to a different class. You can meet with the teacher, the counselor, the principal, the school board, the union rep.

By the time a teacher/student relationship gets that bad, though, the parent will have been aware for quite a while there's a problem.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:39 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,233 posts, read 9,481,332 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally posted by thefinalsay
I would never send a child to a public school. I feel that it is child abuse.
Wow. Thanks for calling me a child abuser. I had no idea that my teaching kids how to read was child abuse.

You do have a point about some union practices though. The story out of NYC is infuriating. As a teacher I hate reading these things because then people will say "see, SEE!! All teachers/schools are worthless! Off with their heads!!" And then assume that I'm a horrible person just because I wanted to teach history for a living. Then I have to defend what I do when, in other countries teaching is actually considered a good profession. There are worse things I could be doing with my life.

And not all teachers suck. Some of us work very hard for our kids and are dedicated to giving them a decent education. So people, please don't paint with such a broad brush. NYC is not your town. You need to look at your own town's school to evaluate it fairly.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:40 PM
 
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
4,196 posts, read 5,843,743 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Private schools wont necessarily fire a bad teacher. They committed to hire them, invested money in them, constantly send them to classes, etc. A public school teacher that a child or parent isnt satisfied with -- move the child to a different class. You can meet with the teacher, the counselor, the principal, the school board, the union rep.

By the time a teacher/student relationship gets that bad, though, the parent will have been aware for quite a while there's a problem.
all the best schools are private.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,530,849 times
Reputation: 8075
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Sorry your wife is in such pain.

Is it lumbar pain? Did she have vertebrae fused? (Not a good idea)

You don't need to answer, I am just curious because I was able to help a couple of scientists who had severe lumbar pain.

Back in the 60's I pretty much had the Physician's Desk Reference memorized.

I'm not that up to date on prescription drugs now - but my sister is a professional child-drugger for the public school system!

If the school has you on Ritalin, and you add pot, what's the result?
Long story cut short: age 13 diagnosed with s-curve scoliosis and rod inserted which included fusing some vertebrae; age 16 doctor said the rod had to come back out and her spine began curving again; few years ago she had a ruptured disc which was removed and rods and screws inserted to keep the spine together; few months ago she was in a car accident in which her 1996 Mazda Protege was hit by a four door 2009 Jeep Wrangler; bone scan and MRI shows bones pressing on the spinal cord at the neck and lower back in a total of about 5 places; pain is on the left side of the hip and runs down her left leg. I can't even give her a good hug. Can only give her soft hugs.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,221,236 times
Reputation: 6553
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
A big company like P&G *has* to become competitive and offer what a union would offer.

You may not have to pay union dues, but you live under your boss's laws, and you stay employed according to your boss's whim.
And yet we out produce our Union counterparts. Even living under the harsh heal of the man? The fact is what motivates P&G is wrongful termenation lawsuits not the Unions. In fact our retirement is better than our Union counterparts in greenbay...
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:45 PM
 
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
4,196 posts, read 5,843,743 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
Wow. Thanks for calling me a child abuser. I had no idea that my teaching kids how to read was child abuse.

You do have a point about some union practices though. The story out of NYC is infuriating. As a teacher I hate reading these things because then people will say "see, SEE!! All teachers/schools are worthless! Off with their heads!!" And then assume that I'm a horrible person just because I wanted to teach history for a living. Then I have to defend what I do when, in other countries teaching is actually considered a good profession. There are worse things I could be doing with my life.

And not all teachers suck. Some of us work very hard for our kids and are dedicated to giving them a decent education. So people, please don't paint with such a broad brush. NYC is not your town. You need to look at your own town's school to evaluate it fairly.
oh I am aware. my mom has been a teacher for 30 years. I give her hell all the time! she actually dropped her union after this last election cycle. she said that they were calling her all the time and sending her junk mail.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,221,236 times
Reputation: 6553
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Wow. "Accountaibility" is kind of vague. Can you give examples please?

Accountability for money? Accountability for a child's education?
Not really vague. Most of us in the private sector understand it quite well.
Example: Mr. Johnson who has tenure consistantly has students who have the lowest test scores in the school. Same mix as his counterparts. He is protected by tenure.
Private sector. Parents will opt for another school rather than deal with such a teacher, private sector would fire Mr. Johnson.
Where I work. I as a Tech am expected to deliver or produce. If I consistantly fail to do so I am held accountable. Where I work low performance against my tech level will result in a few things and ultimately I will get fired. 1 year or 30 will not save me from the consequences of being a poor performer. The same can not be said about a Union shop or public schools.
As a performer I have no issue with slackers getting canned.
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