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Old 06-24-2009, 08:01 AM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,467,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
""""The real world where a union is not there to force employers to compensate employees more than they are worth.""""


I live in the real world where employers can knock everyone down to minimum wage if they feel like it, take away shift premiums, take away earned PTO, not give raises where they're due, promote/protect their friends, subtly/not so subtly harrass employees, add unreasonable tasks to employees stated job description, cut break times, add hours with no overtime,etc.


And don't give me that "they can just get another job" BS!

A. There aren't any.

B. Moving costs money.

C. If all employers can do this where ya gonna go?

D. You loose Health care Insurance.

E. Spouse may not be able to move/change jobs.

F. Children disrupted in the school year.



Employers who treat workers fairly, humanely, with an eye to paying them enough to LIVE on so they can contribute to our economy which helps it thrive don't have to worry about unions.

Wow, you have a crappy job! Most actually value good employees and don't want them to leave, sorry you didn't land one of those.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:10 AM
 
27,214 posts, read 46,736,758 times
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I guess Obama's hand out/bail out voters want more and more unions...it is for the lazy and they love it if Obama will fill up their gas tank and they can sit and play scamble...
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:30 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,148,897 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
Why would the private school founder? They still have the right to be selective, to refuse any student who does not meet certain expectations. That is a luxury that public schools do not enjoy, but having a voucher system in place doesn't change that. Why would you think that the voucher student has any difference in standard or expectation than any other?
That was one of my questions - if the voucher kid meets the private school's selective academic requirements, why hasnt he gone there before now? If he hasnt applied to the private school because his parents make too much money to qualify for financial aid, and the parents would like him to go to a better school than the public one, why dont the parents consider a magnet school, or an AP track at the hated public school, or apply for scholarships to the private school? (Also, many private schools accept work and other assistance from parents in exchange for discounts or even free tuition.)

It's easy to say that the public schools will become competitive as a result of losing some students, but in fact they already have different academic tracks to accommodate and advance every level of student. So I dont think it's higher academics these parents are after.

The voucher parents who make too much to qualify for fin aid want their kids to go to "selective" schools, but not enough to actually pay for them to go or sacrifice for them to go. That's one difference. Another difference is that they dont mind damaging the local public schools for perceived short-term gain.





.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:45 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,148,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coastalrap View Post
They're not government schools? I just call them what they are.

It would seem that tossing kids who want to and can learn in with kids who don't want to or can't doesn't work. Lets put your 8th grader in class with a few who are only there to disrupt the process and one or two have all they can do just not to mess their pants again. But we continue to do that I'm guessing because of gubmint funding. The heck with results, lets get those funds so we can hire another superintendent assistant.

If schools are forced to compete for funds rather than just stand in line and fudge the numbers, our education would improve for all students, now isn't that what the school system really wants afterall?

quoting myself..."The difference is with a private school people have a choice, with the government school, the only choice is to move to a better school district."

You find that cruel and irresponsible and not reality? So?

BTW, those gubmint school AP classes are a joke.
Maybe so, but they can get kids into Harvard. So can magnet schools, if the student qualifies.

"You find that cruel and irresponsible and not reality? So?" -- rest my case >gag<

Actually, why not move to a better school district? A better school district would have better public schools. Problem solved!

What % of school taxes would go to the voucher credit? Twenty-five percent? Would that amount mean the difference between sending the child to private school and public school? According to this chart below the #1 highest property tax state in 2005 was NJ, median tax $5400 (if Im reading it correctly). Twenty-five percent of that entire tax is $1350, which wont take you too far into the first month at a good private school, but WILL damage the local school district.

Property taxes: Where does your state rank? - MSN Money
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:53 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,146,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coastalrap View Post
Wow, you have a crappy job! Most actually value good employees and don't want them to leave, sorry you didn't land one of those.
I am retired...try English, no where did I say I worked at this place. But I've seen it done. But it was a way for you to avoid the issue....

No, companies do not value good employees because they know that they all are replaceable...so push and push, get what they can out of them, until they quit...it's JUST good business ( for them, NOT for business in general)..... new employees or Temps, are cheaper.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:57 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,148,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coastalrap View Post
Wow, you have a crappy job! Most actually value good employees and don't want them to leave, sorry you didn't land one of those.
depends on what they consider a "good" employee, and how much productivity he/she can offer, for how long. Hope your company has a fat and iron-clad pension set up for you
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:14 AM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,467,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Maybe so, but they can get kids into Harvard. So can magnet schools, if the student qualifies.

"You find that cruel and irresponsible and not reality? So?" -- rest my case >gag<

Actually, why not move to a better school district? A better school district would have better public schools. Problem solved!

What % of school taxes would go to the voucher credit? Twenty-five percent? Would that amount mean the difference between sending the child to private school and public school? According to this chart below the #1 highest property tax state in 2005 was NJ, median tax $5400 (if Im reading it correctly). Twenty-five percent of that entire tax is $1350, which wont take you too far into the first month at a good private school, but WILL damage the local school district.

Property taxes: Where does your state rank? - MSN Money
All school taxes should follow the student. Then the parents can decide where they want to have their kids educated. Could be a government school or a private one, it's their choice. But I guess some are against choice.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:23 AM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,467,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
depends on what they consider a "good" employee, and how much productivity he/she can offer, for how long. Hope your company has a fat and iron-clad pension set up for you

Of course! All the more reason to make sure you are not a certified vacuum tube tester. If you expect to hold a job that pays what you want, you better make sure you have and maintain the skills required to get that. Why is it someone elses problem when you don't?

And you should be preparing for your retirement and not relying on someone else, we've seen how that works out.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:26 AM
 
1,902 posts, read 2,467,924 times
Reputation: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
I am retired...try English, no where did I say I worked at this place. But I've seen it done. But it was a way for you to avoid the issue....

No, companies do not value good employees because they know that they all are replaceable...so push and push, get what they can out of them, until they quit...it's JUST good business ( for them, NOT for business in general)..... new employees or Temps, are cheaper.

Wow, you've seen a crappy job, glad you didn't have to experience it.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:47 AM
 
2,229 posts, read 1,686,277 times
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I agree with the voucher system. We need to model our education system after some others around the globe. You don't attend school based on where you live, but rather on your merits of recieving a quality education.

Property taxes now pay for public education. Each student in a school district has X dollars allocated to their annual education. This allocation could be easily attached to the student as a voucher and then redeemed at any private school the student and their parents think would be beneficial for them. Private schools in turn have an obligation to provide a quality education, removing teachers and adminstrators who hurt the enrollment of the school and ulitmately cost the private endeavors bottom line.

State standardized testing and other regulations can still be implemented to ensure that the education provided by a school are meeting minimum requirements. Schools that under perform have their education institution licences revoked preventing them from accepting vouchers.

This is a common problem with many/most government agencies, and a problem that many people turn to government to fix. Problem is, the government is the problem. Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.

When the funding for any adventure is guaranteed with a stroke of a pen, and in this case, the governments pen through taxation, you had better believe that inefficiency is to follow. School districts are currently paying nearly 4 times the cost per student than private schools, yet the results of this additional funding are not proven in the outcome of the test results.

Government agencies, especially the bigger they are, are hugely inefficient. They only stay around because funding is forced.

Capitalism is a good thing, regardless of what air-america radio tells you.
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