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From what I know the test itself is not biased. The decisions and lack of good judgment following the test was the only racist part of it. Please correct me if I'm wrongly informed.
That is correct. The argument wasn't that the test was biased, it was that the test was thrown out as there weren't enough minorities qualifying for the promotions (0 African American, 2 Hispanic)
You are wrong again. The professional test was not a pass/fail.
Critical thinking .....
so let me guess.so what you are saying is that all 180 firefighters that took this test are eligible for promotion.even the one who got 5% has the same chance as the one who got 98% right.so if this test is nop pass and fail why did they even bother having it at first place then
Feeling defensive are you? I can think of no other reason you would assume my original post was directed at you since I did not quote you in my OP nor was my post after yours.
And then when I answered your question about upset versus bigotry, I was answering that question only not saying you were a bigot.
Maybe you should be a bit more tactful with your rebuttals when quoting people. Really
Further, if you want to enter a debate, offer some substance. Don’t just come at us with insults and empty rhetoric.
Generally this is refering to the language used in the exam and how closely it reflects language "in common usage" by a particular group or subset of a group. For example, if the exam were written using language only "in common usage" by 1st generation Irish immigrants living in a particular neighborhood of Boston, and the purpose for using the language was to confuse anyone not familiar with the language and thereby decrease their chances of success on the exam, then it could be considered a racist exam.
Basically that's what they are talking about. Hope this helps explain it.
Know what an adaptive numerator is? Do you know what a DPFE is? How about a CMP, or a CKP? Mind you I didn't say CKT. That would be something different. The reason I know these things now is because I cared to find out in the first place. These technical terms are understood by auto mechanics who have to communicate with others who also speak the language. I spent a lot of money, time and effort to learn the language of my trade. If I were a shop manager and I told a mechanic to change the "crank sensor" on a vehicle that really needed a CMP, I would have made a costly mistake and ended up with an unhappy customer because I didn't know the difference between CMP and CKP.
If the black firefighters don't know what "perpendicular" means because it isn't used in the 'hood, they need to spend the money, time and effort to learn because I'm sure it will come up at some point. Can you imagine the potential confusion when a ladder truck needs to be lined up perpendicular to a building for some reason that makes sense to firefighters, but the person who was told to orientate this vehicle in this manner doesn't know what that perpendicular means? In my first example, a car or truck will continue to have a drivability concern. In the example of the firefighter, people could die or suffer injury because they couldn't be reached since the ladder truck wasn't "perpendicular" to the building.
No, I am not saying that. To be ELIGIBLE one had to score higher than 70%. So I stand corrected that there was no "pass threshold". I should have worded my statement to reflect that fact that the way the dept considers applicants only some of those that meet the threshold would be CONSIDERED. Not everyone that in your words "passed".
(BTW, there is still no pass/fail for the SAT or the ACT.)
NOTE: The decision tried to find the spot between what can be seen as competing provisions of Title VII -- which says that individuals may not be treated differently because of their race, religion or sex, but also that seemingly neutral testing requirements can be discriminatory if they have a disparate impact on members of one group.
The passage rate for the Captain exam was: 16 (64%) of the 25 whites; 3 (38%) of the 8 blacks; 3 (38%) of the 8 Hispanics[6]. The top 9 scorers included 7 whites and 2 Hispanics; given that there were 7 Captain vacancies when the tests were administered, and that the "Rule of Three" in the City Charter mandates that a civil service position be filled from among the three individuals with the highest scores on the exam, it appeared that no blacks and at most two Hispanics would be eligible for promotion.
The passage rate for the Lieutenant exam was: 25 (58%) of the 43 whites; 6 (32%) of the 19 blacks; 3 (20%) of the 15 Hispanics. All the top 10 scorers were white; given that there were 8 vacancies, under the "Rule of Three" it appeared that no blacks or Hispanics would be eligible for promotion.
No, I am not saying that. To be ELIGIBLE one had to score higher than 70%. So I stand corrected that there was no "pass threshold". I should have worded my statement to reflect that fact that the way the dept considers applicants only some of those that meet the threshold would be CONSIDERED. Not everyone that in your words "passed".
(BTW, there is still no pass/fail for the SAT or the ACT.)
NOTE: The decision tried to find the spot between what can be seen as competing provisions of Title VII -- which says that individuals may not be treated differently because of their race, religion or sex, but also that seemingly neutral testing requirements can be discriminatory if they have a disparate impact on members of one group.
The passage rate for the Captain exam was: 16 (64%) of the 25 whites; 3 (38%) of the 8 blacks; 3 (38%) of the 8 Hispanics[6]. The top 9 scorers included 7 whites and 2 Hispanics; given that there were 7 Captain vacancies when the tests were administered, and that the "Rule of Three" in the City Charter mandates that a civil service position be filled from among the three individuals with the highest scores on the exam, it appeared that no blacks and at most two Hispanics would be eligible for promotion.
The passage rate for the Lieutenant exam was: 25 (58%) of the 43 whites; 6 (32%) of the 19 blacks; 3 (20%) of the 15 Hispanics. All the top 10 scorers were white; given that there were 8 vacancies, under the "Rule of Three" it appeared that no blacks or Hispanics would be eligible for promotion.
how is this test rasist then.it said that the best should be promoted,no blacks were in top 10 so how is that white problem or latino problem.next time read the books and folders that are given to firefighters and you will get it.
BTW, there is still no pass/fail for the SAT or the ACT.
well there is a certain amount of points that you have to have on SAT OR ACT to be accepted to high end universities and if you are below it you can be accepted to lower end universities.so this should apply to this test to.
BTW, there is still no pass/fail for the SAT or the ACT.
well there is a certain amount of points that you have to have on SAT OR ACT to be accepted to high end universities and if you are below it you can be accepted to lower end universities.so this should apply to this test to.
I disagree. I would not be comfortable having persons in the lowest echelon of those who tested being responsible for my home and safety. In college such an arrangement may be harmless and will eventually be sorted out in the work place without doing harm. In safety occupations only the best should achieve the higher ranks and be placed in charge.
I disagree. I would not be comfortable having persons in the lowest echelon of those who tested being responsible for my home and safety. In college such an arrangement may be harmless and will eventually be sorted out in the work place without doing harm. In safety occupations only the best should achieve the higher ranks and be placed in charge.
that is what i am saying in this post.if you are not good enough you can not be accepted for captain
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