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A 4.0 student Connecticut State is still inferior to a 2.5 student at Yale in 99% of cases because of what got the student into Yale in the first place. They are simply smarter. The average SAT scores at Yale are hundreds of points higher than at Connecticut State, the students were far more accomplished in HS and endure a much more rigorous academic environment.
Sure there are exceptions to everything, but in general the better a school, the smarter and more capable the students.
The deal is, after you graduate from school, if you went to Yale, well, your friends are going to be from Yale, and your connections, (if you did your networking right) are going to be much better than the guy who went to a not-as-prestigious school. And after your first job, (if you go to grad school, this point is even worse) no one will ever ask you for your GPA.
In my case, by the time I graduated from UT I had 6 years of industry experience in an Engineering related field + 2 internships in research labs. My GPA was ~3.5 and I didn't put it in my resume. After applying for some jobs (while I still was not sure if I wanted to go to grad school) the only times I got asked for my GPA was at the university's career fair. I got an offer from IBM and one from Intel, and my GPA never came out in any of the interviews, and I did not put it on my resume.
I think, that the prestige of the program you are in is what really counts, because people who are hiring have some of an idea of what you had to go through in order to get that degree, and that not just anyone can get it.
I see math wasnt a strong subject for you because you also forgot to add in the cost of college, the compounded interest, the lost time value of money on both the cost of college, and the compounded interest that one loses..
Um, no.
790 on the math section of the SAT. Finished BC Calculus my Junior year of HS and I get paid to analyze people's assets for a living and have seen my clients MAKE money in the last 18 months...
I started the person from college at age 22 and the HS grad at age 18. Four years there. And you'll see that I showed both how much they deposited (the cost basis) and how much it is worth at age 65...And the 401(k) measurement bases everything on pre-tax investment for retirement and NOT ALL COLLEGE STUDENTS HAVE DEBT. Even if they do, the difference in savings and in earnings more than makes up for it. Clearly you just don't understand, because it's pretty simple. If you make more money, you can save more money. You assume that the HS graduate has absolutely no debt, despite supporting themselves on minimum wage for four years, which we know in this country is a fallacy. Nobody is debt free, and most of the time it is not education debt that brings people down, but consumer debt.
A 4.0 student Connecticut State is still inferior to a 2.5 student at Yale in 99% of cases because of what got the student into Yale in the first place. They are simply smarter. The average SAT scores at Yale are hundreds of points higher than at Connecticut State, the students were far more accomplished in HS and endure a much more rigorous academic environment.
Sure there are exceptions to everything, but in general the better a school, the smarter and more capable the students.
If you're going to compare Universities you should at least choose the best public vs. the best private or the worst public vs. the worst private.
UC Berkeley or something vs. Yale would be a better comparison.
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Originally Posted by Pug Life
Nobody is debt free, and most of the time it is not education debt that brings people down, but consumer debt.
Depends on what you mean by "bring down". Both restrict freedom the individual has. If I have 50k+ in University debt I'm chained down immediately out of university.
790 on the math section of the SAT. Finished BC Calculus my Junior year of HS and I get paid to analyze people's assets for a living and have seen my clients MAKE money in the last 18 months...
I started the person from college at age 22 and the HS grad at age 18. Four years there. And you'll see that I showed both how much they deposited (the cost basis) and how much it is worth at age 65...And the 401(k) measurement bases everything on pre-tax investment for retirement and NOT ALL COLLEGE STUDENTS HAVE DEBT. Even if they do, the difference in savings and in earnings more than makes up for it. Clearly you just don't understand, because it's pretty simple. If you make more money, you can save more money. You assume that the HS graduate has absolutely no debt, despite supporting themselves on minimum wage for four years, which we know in this country is a fallacy. Nobody is debt free, and most of the time it is not education debt that brings people down, but consumer debt.
Ahh, see you pretend to try to show how smart you are in math, and then you go and prove how wrong you are..
People could graduate from college with ZERO debt, that doesnt mean that they havent lost investment opportunities with what the PAID TO GO TO COLLEGE.. You do understand that one loses 4 years, sometimes more going to college, and with that time you lose investment opportunities, and even if you manage to graduate with no debt, you still lost the money that you paid for college that COULD HAVE BEEN invested. Just because you SPENT it, doesnt mean that it wouldnt have been better to INVEST it..
Remind me not to hire you for my financial advisor, and btw, I make my living investing my OWN money, not others..
If you're going to compare Universities you should at least choose the best public vs. the best private or the worst public vs. the worst private.
UC Berkeley or something vs. Yale would be a better comparison.
No it wouldn't be, because it was a comparison of choosing to go to a public or private school in your own state. Berkeley vs Stanford would be okay, but Berkeley is not a typical State university. Others that fall into the same category as Berkeley of being state schools with the high reputation are: Texas, Michigan, U-VA, UNC-Chapel Hill and UCLA among a couple others.
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Depends on what you mean by "bring down". Both restrict freedom the individual has. If I have 50k+ in University debt I'm chained down immediately out of university.
True, but you don't have the plexi-glass ceiling (which you can only break through using some kind of special tool...ie, musical talent, brilliant business ideas or luck) that you do without a degree. Fresh out of HS, I could only get a job in Retail or the equivalent. Fresh out of college, I was getting offers at twice the pay in jobs that we much less physically taxing while also providing benefits. Plus, the very fact that many careers wont even allow you to apply without a degree shows how much of a restriction it is to live without a College degree.
Ahh, see you pretend to try to show how smart you are in math, and then you go and prove how wrong you are..
People could graduate from college with ZERO debt, that doesnt mean that they havent lost investment opportunities with what the PAID TO GO TO COLLEGE.. You do understand that one loses 4 years, sometimes more going to college, and with that time you lose investment opportunities, and even if you manage to graduate with no debt, you still lost the money that you paid for college that COULD HAVE BEEN invested. Just because you SPENT it, doesnt mean that it wouldnt have been better to INVEST it..
Remind me not to hire you for my financial advisor..
In other words there is an opportunity cost associated with going to college.
No it wouldn't be, because it was a comparison of choosing to go to a public or private school in your own state. Berkeley vs Stanford would be okay, but Berkeley is not a typical State university. Others that fall into the same category as Berkeley of being state schools with the high reputation are: Texas, Michigan, U-VA, UNC-Chapel Hill and UCLA among a couple others.
I'm just pointing out that it's pretty intellectually dishonest to choose the example which best fits your case.
Quote:
True, but you don't have the plexi-glass ceiling (which you can only break through using some kind of special tool...ie, musical talent, brilliant business ideas or luck) that you do without a degree. Fresh out of HS, I could only get a job in Retail or the equivalent. Fresh out of college, I was getting offers at twice the pay in jobs that we much less physically taxing while also providing benefits. Plus, the very fact that many careers wont even allow you to apply without a degree shows how much of a restriction it is to live without a College degree.
This is the cycle we're in though. People are getting degrees because they need to get degrees to get work that doesn't necessarily require a degree because everyone they compete against has a degree. This is why there is a bubble (or what looks like a bubble).
I understand that you're looking at the reality of the situation, but it looks like you're glossing over the problems with how things are. Someone shouldn't need a degree to do most entry level office work but they're forced to get one or they're screwed even though they would be able to do the job satisfactorily.
Ahh, see you pretend to try to show how smart you are in math, and then you go and prove how wrong you are..
People could graduate from college with ZERO debt, that doesnt mean that they havent lost investment opportunities with what the PAID TO GO TO COLLEGE.. You do understand that one loses 4 years, sometimes more going to college, and with that time you lose investment opportunities, and even if you manage to graduate with no debt, you still lost the money that you paid for college that COULD HAVE BEEN invested. Just because you SPENT it, doesnt mean that it wouldnt have been better to INVEST it..
Remind me not to hire you for my financial advisor, and btw, I make my living investing my OWN money, not others..
Yeah, coming from a guy who used to be homeless, who can't tell the difference between your and you're, then and than...I think I'd take the advice of someone who actually gets paid by doctors, lawyers and other business owners to analyze their assets over someone like you who is just jealous that they didn't get to graduate from college.
I took all that into account...the four years are lost, but the gain in pay more than makes up for it. It's pretty simple for anyone who has half a brain to understand. The cost of college is minimal to many, state schools cost little and most people can afford to pay for them with part-time jobs or small loans. Private schools offer financial aid and scholarships. No matter how you look at it, my calculations are correct. The difference in savings is vast and it favors the person who can make more money. The loan payment becomes another expense, like a car payment, that can be easily handled with a decent enough job. It would not affect PRE-TAX savings, because it's a salary reduction, not an after-tax investment.
I'm just pointing out that it's pretty intellectually dishonest to choose the example which best fits your case.
This is the cycle we're in though. People are getting degrees because they need to get degrees to get work that doesn't necessarily require a degree because everyone they compete against has a degree. This is why there is a bubble (or what looks like a bubble).
I understand that you're looking at the reality of the situation, but it looks like you're glossing over the problems with how things are. Someone shouldn't need a degree to do most entry level office work but they're forced to get one or they're screwed even though they would be able to do the job satisfactorily.
I personally didn't feel that I needed a college degree for anything but the credentials...but then again, I didn't need the Series 65 to know that I am able to provide sound investment advice. But the fact is that the article is foolish because it doesn't take reality into account. Sure, there is a chance that someone who skipped college and didn't have any skills or talents was able to be more successful in saving for retirement than a peer who went to a University, but that would be the rare case.
Plus, college also helps a teenager mature into an adult. Sure, college is about fun and partying, but it's also about personal responsibility, INTELLECTUAL DEVELOPMENT, and exposure to people different from one's own little bubble. Many of my most profound intellectual moments in college were not during class, but in a late night discussion in the dorms with other intellectually curious college students. Hanging out with my buddies who didn't go to college, it's all about beer, weed, chicks and fighting...while I enjoy those kinds of nights, it's pretty primitive.
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