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The bottom line is that the "White Supremacy" crowd is desparately hoping that this case (or one like it) will be the catalyst to the race war that they have been so eager to have in this country.
The fact that this crime was not stipulated as a "hate crime" has more to do with the prosecutor and Feds in that area than it does the police department. Even if a case has "hate crime" indications, they will not charge if they don't think that they have the evidence to proceed.
But what really concerns me is that the "White Supremacy" crowd is more concerned with whether this is classified as a hate crime vs trying to provide support to the victimized family.
The bottom line is that the "White Supremacy" crowd is desparately hoping that this case (or one like it) will be the catalyst to the race war that they have been so eager to have in this country.
The fact that this crime was not stipulated as a "hate crime" has more to do with the prosecutor and Feds in that area than it does the police department. Even if a case has "hate crime" indications, they will not charge if they don't think that they have the evidence to proceed.
But what really concerns me is that the "White Supremacy" crowd is more concerned with whether this is classified as a hate crime vs trying to provide support to the victimized family.
If anyone wants a race war it surely is not the whites, it the African Americans who have kicked it up a notch lately with the racism, not the whites.
If this was the other way around it would be all over the news and you know it.
The bottom line is that the "White Supremacy" crowd is desparately hoping that this case (or one like it) will be the catalyst to the race war that they have been so eager to have in this country.
The fact that this crime was not stipulated as a "hate crime" has more to do with the prosecutor and Feds in that area than it does the police department. Even if a case has "hate crime" indications, they will not charge if they don't think that they have the evidence to proceed.
But what really concerns me is that the "White Supremacy" crowd is more concerned with whether this is classified as a hate crime vs trying to provide support to the victimized family.
Do you have some sort of proof of theses allegations?
No, you are incorrect. The white man would get the same sentence for beating either a white man or a black man other things being equal.
The motivation for the crime is what could make them unequal. Motivtion has always been a factor in the criminal justice system. For example, motivation can determine different degrees of murder with different panalties. Nothing new here.
If the white man beats up a black man in order to rob him, no hate crime. If the white man beats up a black man simply because he is black, then we have a hate crime.
A hate crime has a much larger impact on society than a simple robbery. If someone is beating blacks just because they're black it causes fear and concern for the whole black community. Hate crimes are perpetrated to terrorize send a message. Its an act of terror. As such, hate crimes should be punished more harshly.
- Reel
I didn't say that motivation doesn't factor in to the criminal justice system, I said that it shouldn't. If someone attacks a person just for the heck of it, then isn't that a crime of hate? I am not saying that a person should not be punished for something like that, and I'm not even saying that they shouldn't be punished more harshly (for the reason you pointed out, that it is an act of terror). What I am saying is that the particular minority or ethnic group the victim belongs to shouldn't matter.
this idiot from la(cali poppy) comes with this post and everybody gets defensive and start to apologizing for obvius hate crime.i am not a skin head but race war is needed in this country or black will be going after white americans until white aericans don't stand up and fight back.why do you thing that these things only happen to white americans or western europeans and never to eastern europeans.because blacks know that if they attack white americans they will not fight back because they have been brainwashed with white guilt that they would alloow blacks to kill them but they would never raise their habd on blacks.while easter europeans will beat the crap out of them.
And if a black man beats up/attacks a white man simply because he is white, would you call that a hate crime? Or merely justification for wrongs from a century ago?
I didn't say that motivation doesn't factor in to the criminal justice system, I said that it shouldn't. If someone attacks a person just for the heck of it, then isn't that a crime of hate? I am not saying that a person should not be punished for something like that, and I'm not even saying that they shouldn't be punished more harshly (for the reason you pointed out, that it is an act of terror). What I am saying is that the particular minority or ethnic group the victim belongs to shouldn't matter.
Yes, of course motivation should be a factor in the criminal justice system. Pre meditated murder is much worse than a crime of passion i.e. finding your wife in bed with another man and killing one or both. Also, you are using the literal definition of hate. Of course the man who finds his wife in bed with someone else hates the man and probably his wife but that does not make it a hate crime.
A hate crime is a crime in which the victim is targeted simply because of membership within a certain segment of society. This has implications well beyond the victim. This victimizes all members of that segment of society. If a man is attacked simply because he is gay, it causes fear and concern within the entire gay community. If a gay man is attacked simply because the perpetrator wanted his wallet this is not the case. A hate crime is designed to send a message to all members of that group and as such is more of an act of terror than a simple robbery. It is a much worse crime than a simple robbery and should be punished more harshly.
This is exactly why I don't support hate crimes AT ALL. If someone commits a crime, whatever the reasoning behind it may be, he/she/they should be punished accordingly. Hate crimes have the effect of creating a two-tiered justice system... one for people protected under hate crimes, and another for people who are not. Hate crimes are racist (or sexist or whatever), because they give preference to a certain group of people only because of their particular race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. For instance...
A. A white man beats up another white man and the criminal gets sentenced to 2 years in prison (these are completely hypothetical numbers).
B. A white man beats up a black man to an equal degree of the first crime, yet this criminal gets sentenced to 3 years in prison because it was not only assault and battery, but also a hate crime.
Do you see where the preference is shown? Why should the criminal who attacked the black man be subject to more time prison time? The two crimes were equally heinous, so they should get equal punishment. The reasoning behind the person's crime should not matter when it comes to punishing that person. If we're supposed to have an equal society, then person's punishment should not be dependant upon the victim's skin color or sex life. And really, I think that hate crimes only further divide the country and different races. How are we expected to treat each other as equals when the government tells us that we are not?
I have mixed feelings about hate crime laws, but people need to understand that they don't give preferences to one group over another.
Last edited by AnUnidentifiedMale; 07-18-2009 at 03:09 AM..
What I am saying is that the particular minority or ethnic group the victim belongs to shouldn't matter.
I just read your last sentence. That's a fair point. If doctors start getting beaten up leaving the hospital after work it would have the same impact within the community of doctors as gay bashing would have in the gay community. I would have no problem with a hate crime being define as one perpetrated against any segment of society without necessarily naming those particular segments. This example would be a crime designed to terrorize doctors.
I guess they are only addressing areas that have proven to be problems. Gays and minorities are attacked and killed quite often simply because of their membership in those groups. If attacks on doctors simply because they are doctors starts to become some kind of widespread problem they would probably be added to the list. However, there is some merit to just killing all of these birds with one stone.
Good god. Another one who doesn't understand how hate crime laws work.
I have mixed feelings about hate crime laws, but people need to understand that they don't give preferences to one group over another.
I do have to admit that AT9 had a fair point. The list of groups in the bill include those that have had a real problem with hate crimes. However, perhaps it should not matter what group one belongs to.
It could be that one day a large segment of society really begins to hate corporate CEO's and they start getting bashed, beaten up and killed simply because they are CEO's and no other reason. That may be a stretch but I can't think of a better example. Would that not be a hate crime? All CEO's would become afraid to walk down the street in public.
I don't think AT9's point negates the need for a hate crimes bill but why wait until things become problems if they can be addressed in a bill right now?
- Reel
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