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OK read idividual all the way to page 17 then read (B) under employer Grandfather. No such language exists under individial. They are 2 separate things. Indivdual Grandfaterhed plans and Grandfathered employer based plans. They are dealt with in 2 different ways. You are applying the language in one section to concepts from a different section.
The article refers directly to the language on page 16 indicating that you will not be able to purchase or change private insurance after Day 1, that is not the case whatsoever.
You can stay on your current plan
You can leave and purchase new insurance that abides by the regulations
You can go on the public option
The article refers directly to the language on page 16 indicating that you will not be able to purchase or change private insurance after Day 1, that is not the case whatsoever.
You can stay on your current plan
You can leave and purchase new insurance that abides by the regulations
You can go on the public option
basically there will be a regulator for health insurance plans.
In other words the SEC is to stocks, bonds, options Mutual funds etc..
as the new health care bill will be to health care plans.
Elmendorf: No, Mr. Chairman. In the legislation that has been reported we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount. And on the contrary, the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs.
Careful, you're displaying your stubborn ignorance. Didn't bother to read the REST, where it says that I downloaded and read the bill? Want to have an actual intelliget conversation abut the facts, regardless of how I was made aware of them?
Careful, you're displaying your stubborn ignorance. Didn't bother to read the REST, where it says that I downloaded and read the bill? Want to have an actual intelliget conversation abut the facts, regardless of how I was made aware of them?
Cool! Insults from people like you are as good as compliments.
That Rush guy you religiously listen to, and blindly follow, must have read the nearly 1000 page bill in its entirety. He mentioned page 16 (either without having a clue or giving it a deliberate Rush job for people like to trumpet around). May be he knows what is on page 19, but he ain't telling you.
For a change, stop listening and start thinking. Its out there! Now go, read and, more importantly, comprehend properly. Then talk.
Cool! Insults from people like you are as good as compliments.
That Rush guy you religiously listen to, and blindly follow, must have read the nearly 1000 page bill in its entirety. He mentioned page 16 (either without having a clue or giving it a deliberate Rush job for people like to trumpet around). May be he knows what is on page 19, but he ain't telling you.
For a change, stop listening and start thinking. Its out there! Now go, read and, more importantly, comprehend properly. Then talk.
You're stubborn refusal to actually discuss the issue is getting funny.
A few facts for you.
First, saying that I heard him say something and then I investigated it is not the same as blindly following him. Stop trying to paint me to look like some sycophant.
Second, it was clear in my original post that after hearing him mention it, I went & read the relevant section of the bill, so it seems obvious to me that you are INTENTIONALLY making thse statements & assumptions so as to cloud the issue with your (and many other peoples) dislike of Rush. Forget then, that I heard about it on Rush. The bill is being discussed everywhere.
Third, while I have not yet been able to read the bill anywhere near entirely, I have read up to and including the page you mention, page 19. And there is NOTHING there so far to counter what I've asked about, which is the ability to purchase private health care insurance that is not part of the government run system.
Here's the most relevant statement on page 19. Perhaps this is what you were refering to? "Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurancecoverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan"
Now, to me, that says that no one will be able to purchase any health care insurance that is not an "Exchange participating " plan. Which means government controlled. Can you point to anything that say I am wrong?
Last edited by Bill Keegan; 07-17-2009 at 05:50 AM..
Reason: Typos & font issues
You said that you won't be able to purchase ANY health insurance besides the public plan. That's not the case. Same insurers - they will just be playing by the Government rules. Government regulated. Just as the drugs you take are regulated. Those are laid out in the document as well, take a look. OH NO! They can no longer drop people for a preexisting condition from 1982 that they forgot to report. Take a read of the rules before judging them. They're very simple and not crazy at all.
She recently testified. Breast Cancer. Insurance certified her to have her mastectomy, then denied the claim after it was found she didn't report the fact that she was treated for ACNE years prior.
Then once you're dropped and have a lapse in coverage, other insurance companies won't take you.
It's a vicious cycle that needs to be dealt with, and that people think is no big deal until it happens to them.
And we're talking people WITH insurance here... not even people suffering without. People WITH insurance are having their health played with while insurance companies try to figure out how to collect their premiums, yet still cut as many costs as possible, even if it means people dying.
You're stubborn refusal to actually discuss the issue is getting funny.
A few facts for you.
First, saying that I heard him say something and then I investigated it is not the same as blindly following him. Stop trying to paint me to look like some sycophant.
Second, it was clear in my original post that after hearing him mention it, I went & read the relevant section of the bill, so it seems obvious to me that you are INTENTIONALLY making thse statements & assumptions so as to cloud the issue with your (and many other peoples) dislike of Rush. Forget then, that I heard about it on Rush. The bill is being discussed everywhere.
Third, while I have not yet been able to read the bill anywhere near entirely, I have read up to and including the page you mention, page 19. And there is NOTHING there so far to counter what I've asked about, which is the ability to purchase private health care insurance that is not part of the government run system.
Here's the most relevant statement on page 19. Perhaps this is what you were refering to? "Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurancecoverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan"
Now, to me, that says that no one will be able to purchase any health care insurance that is not an "Exchange participating " plan. Which means government controlled. Can you point to anything that say I am wrong?
You got half baked truth served to you, a load of crap would be more like it. And it was enough to get your biased mindset only dig deeper in the direction intended. Not sure which source you used to read "the whole section", but this should be it.
Now, allow me to help you analyze/understand, because people you listen to and read have done a pretty lousy job. Start with the title itself and the rest of the text quoted as well:
Sec. 102: PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP THE CURRENT COVERAGE
(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage' means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.
(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.
(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
Then try to answer this to yourself: What do you think grandfathered health insurance implied? Why do you think this provision has been made? How in the world did you manage to conclude that the plan is to make the public option mandatory?
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