Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Lol...is it really so inconceivable that there are people who fall on hard times and don't go looking for a handout?
Ya, those Wall Street/Banking Welfare Queens sure didn't mind a handout.
As to the average person...there aren't many looking for a handout, they just want affordable health care so they don't have to go into bankruptcy, lose their job, lose their home and then become a burden on other tax payers just because they got sick or had an accident.
EVERYBODY pays when some citizens can't afford health care and/or lose their homes.
If you don't like paying taxes to support this country then stay out of National Parks, libraries, the court system, schools,etc.....I hear LAZY people use them
Well, the europeans do a lot of things better than we do, they just go too far. I have had the priviledge of visiting France often on business, and one thing that all the French and Americans that understand some of both sides agree on, is that if we could somehow blend the two systems, it would be nearly perfect.
If european systems are so bad, tell me, why do the Swedes in particular, and the Germans and others enjoy some of the highest living standards in the world? Over here it is a crap shoot, if you are a winner, you are likely to win big. Otherwise you are likely to be in the crapper, and one false move and you're shot down with little retirement and few prospects. As long as the economy grows strongly, you're OK. But if the economy doesn't... you're screwed, because our ability to manage what we have without strong growth is very, very poor.
Also, the republicans often rail about "socialism" as a buzz word and then also praise our military might and spending... but what is the most socialistic organization in the USA? THE MILITARY. And why does it exist as an almost utopian refuge of full employment, easy jobs, time off, health care, retirement benefits, etc? Because we subsidize it, basically stealing from those outside the military. Could we extend these things to the general populance? No, it would not be economically viable. But should we lean toward what amounts to capitalistic anarchy, trusting that the "trickle-down" effect will take care of nearly all? Well, we know what that leads to, and it has destroyed our economy and also any belief the rest of the world had in our capitalistic skill... a capture of windfall profits by the wealthy and to those who are cut in by the wealthy... with almost none trickling down. What trickles down, or more accurately rains down in a flood, is the economic fallout of the failing economy, while those who captured the profits are insulated. If this continues, it will eventually lead to another Bastille day, but in the USA.
ALL major economies have some elements of socialism, it is necessary to make such a large enterprise run. But it can't be taken to extreme, because you must maintain the dynamism and renewal processes of a market economy. BUT, you must regulate enough that con artists (including many corporate big boys and members of government) can run off with the piggy bank.
Many people don't understand that we are maturing as a country, we are no longer the fast-growth new economy. Slower growth will be the norm and we must do better at managing in this arena. We will become more like europe simply because of this maturing process. We must study europe, especially the UK because it is an island nation with the same language and similar culture, to understand what is good that we can use, and what is bad that we must avoid. They can help us. Remember where the Statue of Liberty came from! Would we do that for them? It is wrong to just dismiss europe and to just conduct our own grand experiment, this is just an extension of our arrogance that stems from our nation being somewhat of a teenager compared to europe.
We must do better with health care. Why are our costs the highest in the world? Because so many are making windfall profits. Why is our day care system an anarchic non-system that is almost totally unregulated? Look at the systems in europe. We must do more for single parents, they are raising a generation that will create a future disaster, mainly because of neglect by necessity, trying to put food on the table.
Do you still believe that we are so great? We just believe our own bull****, that's all. We are good, but no better than most humans elsewhere. OUR SUCCESS HAS COME MAINLY BECAUSE WE HAD THE ADVANTAGE OF OPEN LAND (sorry indians) AND THAT AFTER 2 WORLD WARS, THE MOST ADVANCED ECONOMIES IN THE WORLD (w.
I sooooooo agree with you.
Capitalism and Socialism can only work when they run hand in hand. Too much of either is like gorging yourself on one type of food, it cannot work. You become bloated with one thing and deficient in another. If only the answer was black and white and just using Socialism or just using Capitalism was the answer...It Isn't.
To say that ANY health system is perfect is naive but to not use a health system model from another country because you don't understand it or are brainwashed by self interest groups is just plain dumb at the least and criminally stupid at worse.
America should look at other Health Systems and cherry pick the best parts and discard the bad parts. Are some in America sooo shallow that they believe that time has stood still and the ONLY Health Sytem that should be used in the USA is the current old expensive and inefficient example?
Health is NOT a luxury item but i'm afraid that Luxury items seem to be the only thing that some Americans aspire to.
Ya, those Wall Street/Banking Welfare Queens sure didn't mind a handout.
As to the average person...there aren't many looking for a handout, they just want affordable health care so they don't have to go into bankruptcy, lose their job, lose their home and then become a burden on other tax payers just because they got sick or had an accident.
EVERYBODY pays when some citizens can't afford health care and/or lose their homes.
If you don't like paying taxes to support this country then stay out of National Parks, libraries, the court system, schools,etc.....I hear LAZY people use them
It's only a handout when it's needed by normal everyday Americans. It becomes a strategic necessity when it might affect the finances or the buying power of the "Fat Cats" and elitists in America.
Ya, those Wall Street/Banking Welfare Queens sure didn't mind a handout.
As to the average person...there aren't many looking for a handout, they just want affordable health care so they don't have to go into bankruptcy, lose their job, lose their home and then become a burden on other tax payers just because they got sick or had an accident.
EVERYBODY pays when some citizens can't afford health care and/or lose their homes.
If you don't like paying taxes to support this country then stay out of National Parks, libraries, the court system, schools,etc.....I hear LAZY people use them
a. I never supported the bailouts or corporate welfare. Most of the conseratives I know didn't. The politicians voted for that nonsense...on both sides of the aisle.
b. There is affordable health care and millions of people have it and take advantage of it and are perfectly happy with it...to the tune of about 200 million.
c. Do y'all know how to argue or just throw insults?
a. I never supported the bailouts or corporate welfare. Most of the conseratives I know didn't. The politicians voted for that nonsense...on both sides of the aisle.
b. There is affordable health care and millions of people have it and take advantage of it and are perfectly happy with it...to the tune of about 200 million.
c. Do y'all know how to argue or just throw insults?
I never insulted you.
"""b. There is affordable health care and millions of people have it and take advantage of it and are perfectly happy with it...to the tune of about 200 million."""
I think you haven't looked farther than the end of your nose for information on what a horrible mess Health Care is in this country....it's the Republican thing "If I'm OK, everything is OK".
Well, that's not true ...YOU pay for those who don't have health care ...YOU pay for those who lose health care coverage...YOU pay for those who lose their home....no one is an island....NO one is independent of others.
But if you have bliss....there's a good reason.....
Originally Posted by Who?Me?!;9857055I think you haven't looked farther than the end of your nose for information on what a horrible mess Health Care is in this country....it's the Republican thing "If [B
I'm[/b] OK, everything is OK".
I have a feeling I have a much better idea about the state of health care in this country than almost everyone on this thread.
For the people who think that socialized health care and all the socialistic changes Obama is making, are so great, why not move to Europe and see how great it really is.
Sit at a doctors office and see indeed how fast you can get through the paperwork, which is hardly any paper since you can't sue if something went wrong...that saves half an hour of your time, but than the waiting at the primary doctor's office starts and hopefully the doctor has the same opinion as you or will refer you to a specialized doctor for further checking what is wrong with you...if not, this is as far you will get and you go home and suffer further. (maybe it took you one or 2 hours). If you get a referal which you need otherwise you won't get in the oor with a specialist, you can make an appointment ad if you are lucky you can see the doctor 6 weeks later.
Than if the doctor thinks you need treatment you will be on a invincible waiting list and you get another appointment for maybe 4 to 6 weeks later. Meanwhile you are a couple months further and still nothing has happened. The doctor will start with the cheapest treatment which might not be the best to get rid of your pain or illness but he has to work according to governement rules and after waitng for another couple of weeks to see if you feel a little better you can make another appointment and maybe he will repeat the same thing or start doing a little different treatment.
For a MRI you have to wait 6 weeks.
If you want to be taken care off by the governement try to live in Europe and you will love it, specially the first months, when the honeymoon feeling is still there.
You cet into a education and at the age of 14 you choose your courses and rop others, not knowing that many jobs won't be possible for you anymore that is something you will regret later. Just speak with Europeans and see how many ever changed professions in their life...hardly anyone. It is simple not possible. That was one of the biggest culture shcks to me, here people have changed professions for whatever reason and are much better being creative and if you want to make a better life for your self it is possible.
In most European countries you can only work for 36 hours a week...sounds great he? Get 25 days of vacation, get money for the vacation paid by the employer, sounds great isn't it?
You know how much you will earn for the rest of your life...maybe you get a little increase over the years since in many jobs you get paid by how old you are, up to when you get 23 yrs old and for many employers you are labelled "old" since you are on the op of the paying scale and they rather have a cheaper younger person...
But isn't it great, no 3 jobs to work or 2....great isn't it....well you won't have the same income as if you would have 3 jobs, but you have more time off...you can't buy as much as you want but who cares, you have health care...is't that great...as long as your healthy and get a long with your docotr and aslong as you are young! Don't get old, or you will hear "it is your age", every time you go to the doctor.
Maybe the people who believe that people should choose can live over here and the others will live in Europe, like an exchange plan...sounds great to me. I wonder how many criminals and lazy people would leave this country and how many entrpeneurs would come over here....I know the answer...this country would be better than ever! Let's start and ship the hope and change person over there...JMO!
Propaganda repeated verbatim.
Fact is, ALL countries (industrialized- I know!!) are more satisfied with their socialized medicine programs than are we with our costly free-market disaster.
I have a feeling I have a much better idea about the state of health care in this country than almost everyone on this thread.
Maybe next time you get this feeling...go see the Doctor... That is if the Insurance company will pay for the consultation.
Did you know that 60% of Bankruptcy's in the USA are due to Health Costs?
Hey that's what a great Health Service does.....put people in the Bankruptcy courts......NOT!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
