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No offense to you NewYorkborn, but i do disagree with one of your points. I think you have a few valid arguments in terms of census data. I''m not really sure how accurate the data from the census in terms of counting each and every person of a race in this country? I think this argument could go various ways (maybe there are more Hispanics in this country as well? who knows exactly right?)
I do highly disagree with your reference to South Africa being owned by the tribes that were there. It is well know fact, that the dutch Afrikaners settled what is now known as South Africa when there were no tribal groups around. The tribal people came into the dutch settlement 50-100 years after it was settled and they came looking for work and jobs. They did not contribute to the early development of much of South Africa, that is not to say they did not contribute to the later development etc. Anyway, Dutch Afrikaners have been in that area for more than 500 years, so they are just as African as any American is American.
History of SOUTH AFRICA
According to this History of SA the first whites there were criminals who traded with the Khoikhoi tribes, The Dutch eventually became Nomadic Farmers Stealing Cattle from the tribes who populated SA .
How does 500 years trump several thousands years of existence?
NewYorkBorn
Senior Member
I do highly disagree with your reference to South Africa being owned by the tribes that were there. It is well know fact, that the dutch Afrikaners settled what is now known as South Africa when there were no tribal groups around.
Oh, really!!
So no Indegenous black people lived on this land???...really!!
The Xhosa are part of the South African Nguni migration which slowly moved south from the region around the Great Lakes. Xhosa peoples were well established by the time of the Dutch arrival in the mid-1600s, and occupied much of eastern South Africa from the Fish River to land inhabited by Zulu-speakers south of the modern city of Durban...
NewYorkBorn
Senior Member
I do highly disagree with your reference to South Africa being owned by the tribes that were there. It is well know fact, that the dutch Afrikaners settled what is now known as South Africa when there were no tribal groups around.
Oh, really!!
So no Indegenous black people lived on this land???...really!!
The Xhosa are part of the South African Nguni migration which slowly moved south from the region around the Great Lakes. Xhosa peoples were well established by the time of the Dutch arrival in the mid-1600s, and occupied much of eastern South Africa from the Fish River to land inhabited by Zulu-speakers south of the modern city of Durban...
Reconmark, i did not say that no indigenous tribes lived on the land. I merely stated, that they obviously had not settled the land the Dutch settled. I also stated they did not come to the settlement into well after it was established from the northern regions. I did not discredit there living there, but i made a clear distinction of where either group lived etc.
Look, if i stated something incorrectly, I'll certainly retract my answer, but i do not think i stated in that was overtly incorrect. However, at the risk, of taking this thread in a completely different direction, than the one intended, i'll agree to disagree with you on the Dutch Colonialism issue.
NewYorkBorn
Senior Member
I do highly disagree with your reference to South Africa being owned by the tribes that were there. It is well know fact, that the dutch Afrikaners settled what is now known as South Africa when there were no tribal groups around.
Oh, really!!
So no Indegenous black people lived on this land???...really!!
The Xhosa are part of the South African Nguni migration which slowly moved south from the region around the Great Lakes. Xhosa peoples were well established by the time of the Dutch arrival in the mid-1600s, and occupied much of eastern South Africa from the Fish River to land inhabited by Zulu-speakers south of the modern city of Durban...
What they don't want to admit is that the black man has been walking around on this planet for thousands of years! Africa is the worlds oldest culture. In fact the black man/woman was the first people to walk on this planet.........all of civilization came from the womb of Eve who was a black woman. America and Europe are the new kids on the block. People need to read their bible.......the bible clearly mentions Egypt and Ethiopia when discussing creation.
What they don't want to admit is that the black man has been walking around on this planet for thousands of years! Africa is the worlds oldest culture. In fact the black man/woman was the first people to walk on this planet.........all of civilization came from the womb of Eve who was a black woman. America and Europe are the new kids on the block. People need to read their bible.......the bible clearly mentions Egypt and Ethiopia when discussing creation.
Hey come on let's not start one of those threads, this was a good thread to discuss stereotypes etc, so i do not want it to go into one of those flame throwing ways, that typically happens when you discuss this sort of stuff.
Look agreed there is hard evidence that points to the first man being created on the continent of Africa, but as i said above, not really looking to discuss that view point as i do not feel it is relevant to the initial topic. Not attempting to silence anyone's view i do understand that topics can take on a life of their own after the original question has been asked, but can we please not go down this road in this thread?
I have an African friend, that believes that all Black Americans are poor and not as hard working as Africans. I have also noticed forums on this board, that state that Africans are harder working than African Americans.
I looked up some information and African Americans have a GDP of over 1.1 Trillion Dollars and a population of 35 Million people. The US total GDP was 14 Trillion (300 Million population) and the total GDP for the entire continent of Africa is just under 2 Trillion and there are almost 1 Billion people living there.
My question is do all African's believe this? Also, how can you look down on the "supposed" poverty of African Americans, if your country has a population, that is 28x's bigger than the US African American population, but as an entire continent you only have a trillion dollars more in GDP?
My second to lat question is why don't African Americans just leave the US and start their own country on some island? Based on those GDP figures African Americans have a higher GDP than Russia, Spain, Netherlands, Canada, Brazil, India, Mexico, Australia, South Korea, Turkey, Belgium, Switzerland, Sweden, Austria, and etc.
My last question is how bad is it really in America as a "minority" considering if you left the country and went anywhere else in the world you would still be a first world country be leaps and bounds?
1st Question.
Your friend is wrong if he believe all Black American's are poor.
Comparing Africa to African Americans is strange to me since Africa is a Continent. With many different cultures and beliefs. I've heard of European's that hate Americans (They call them arrogant or dumb Americans). So are you basing your beliefs only from your friends belief or your very own beliefs?
2nd Question.
Your gathering information from Africa, as if Africa is a country.
3rd Question.
No I don't believe it. I do believe many people like Africans, Indians, Asians and others that where fortunate to make it here in America take every advantage to promote their education and businesses.
4th. Question.
No. My people built this country while slave owners basically chilled for over 400 years.
Hey come on let's not start one of those threads, this was a good thread to discuss stereotypes etc, so i do not want it to go into one of those flame throwing ways, that typically happens when you discuss this sort of stuff.
Look agreed there is hard evidence that points to the first man being created on the continent of Africa, but as i said above, not really looking to discuss that view point as i do not feel it is relevant to the initial topic. Not attempting to silence anyone's view i do understand that topics can take on a life of their own after the original question has been asked, but can we please not go down this road in this thread?
You started this thread.......not me! It was you who responded to me saying that the Dutch settled the land in SA when no African tribes were living there. If you are going to make statements on this forum about someone else's culture based on something you read in a book more then likely written by white people.......then be prepared to be corrected. In addition to that I find the question about whether Africans think they are better then African Americans to be very divisive!
That is that divide and conquer crap that the white man used during slavery to put light skinned blacks against dark skinned blacks!! We could ask the same question......do European whites living in London think they are better then American whites??
To answer this silly question........I have never met an African who thought they were better then an African American. In fact all black people whether they come from Africa, Jamaica, Trinidad, Haiti, Bermuda, Barbados (this includes our latin american brothers/sisters too, yes Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Brazilians, Columbians all have black blood.....they dropped us on those islands during slavery too), should be grateful that African Americans built America through slavery, blood, sweat, tears, rape of black women, murder and over 400 years of free labor......which by the way I might add we have yet to be paid for! If it were not for the struggle here in America of my African and Native American family members.........no black person from any country would be able to come here and work hard to build a business! In fact America is a success today because of the slave labor that black people had to endure in this country.
Stop the madness!!
Last edited by NewYorkBorn; 07-20-2009 at 04:42 PM..
My point wasen't to attack you, but when you say "settled" the meaning is generally looked at as, "no one was there so we moved ther type of thing".
You can't settle in a place that is already inhabited by other people unless they agree to co-exist, move somewhere else, or have something very bad done to them; which is usually what the Europeans did to the original occupiers of those lands.
I see you have received some harsh replies so I'll come back to your original question.
Here in SE michigan I have had encounters with many Africans that have an attitulde towards blacks, I have heard various reasons from some of them.
My brother in law is from Nigeria and they have a very distastful name for black Americans, the spelling may be off but it's, "nikata"
If you hear that from them towards you, it's not a compliment!!
One valid point he does make is that we do not take full advantage of the opportunities available even in the face of prejudicial attituldes from some whites.
Your friend is wrong if he believe all Black American's are poor.
Comparing Africa to African Americans is strange to me since Africa is a Continent. With many different cultures and beliefs. I've heard of European's that hate Americans (They call them arrogant or dumb Americans). So are you basing your beliefs only from your friends belief or your very own beliefs?
2nd Question.
Your gathering information from Africa, as if Africa is a country.
3rd Question.
No I don't believe it. I do believe many people like Africans, Indians, Asians and others that where fortunate to make it here in America take every advantage to promote their education and businesses.
4th. Question.
No. My people built this country while slave owners basically chilled for over 400 years.
Mr.Opinion, i thank you for your response to my questions. However, i made a clear distinction in the fact, that my friend from the "continent" of Africa, thought African Americans were poor in comparison to Africans.
I thought it was a bit of an outrageous claim, so i looked up some information. I pointed out in the thread what made me think the claim was a bit ridiculous. The first thing that made me think the claim was silly was that African Americans contribute more than 1.1 Trillion Dollars to the US GDP (the highest GDP in the world). I then compared the entire output of the "continent" of Africa to the 35 million or so African Americans living in the US and deducted, that it was absurd for him to make such a comment. Considering their entire African Continent of almost 1 Billion people only produced a Trillion dollars more in GDP than 35 Million or so African Americans. If you think about it in terms of GDP per/person 2.2 Trillion divide by 1 Billion people is certainly not as high as 1.1 Trillion divide by 35 Million (or more) people is it? Or if you think of it this way how much GDP could the 35 Million African Americans produce if there were 1 Billion of them etc?
1. Point I conclude not racist, in fact it actually favored the productivity of African Americans, because i pointed out they had a higher GDP, than Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Switzerland, etc) - How could that be insulting to African Americans?
2. My first bit of data would have given you the ability to argue, that African Americans are more productive than Africans and many other groups in the world. Based on their current experience in America, the here and now, so i do not want to hear these Slavery arguments, because you're still if isolated to your own island a 1st world country, so my point is it could not have been all that bad and stunted all of your growth etc. I also asked do you think the higher productivity has to do with your race living in the most productive country in the world?
3. I made the point to ask the question was living in America considering the information in question 1 is it really all that bad to be a minority (all things considering, obviously everyone whether they admit it or not is aware of your struggle in the US)
4. I also asked perhaps the vast stereotypes of African Americans, being unproductive, poor, and whatever are maybe not fully correct. I mean if they are able to contribute 1.1 Trillion dollars to the US GDP, they must not all be poor, unproductive, and lazy etc.
I basically got attacked by a relative few people, when looking back, i probably helped your argument and position in life out, by informing you of those statistics. Yes, i was unaware of them, and yes, i was a bit shocked by them, but all things considering, it made me think, that my preconceived notions of the African American population in America is much different than most stereotypes would indicate.
Finally Conclusion my Ghanaian friend was incorrect with his assumptions of present day African Americans and so was I.
However, thanks for insulting me, and attempting to bring in slavery and a host of other things, i was not even trying to bring into this debate. Most of the questions when included with the facts were rather flattering if you ask me all things considering.
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