Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You must not get out much. Having said that, I care for my money, as did a friend of mine, who was to pay $3700 for MRI. Instead, he chose to get it done in India, for $150 (and $900 for round trip tickets, plus a little extra for a nice vacation). I would too!
Great- do the imaging there. Get treatment there. My MRI, two CTscans with contrast,PET scan, two surgeries, and four months of chemotherapy, and all the oncology visits cost me $1200 out of pocket. The flight tickets for each of my family members 6 months ago to Hawaii was higher. One of my associates at the VA had a child who had a multi-level fusion for scoliosis. Total cost- $165,000. Cost to him - $135. Apparently you need a better insurance plan.
Interestingly, I was chatting with an exec at John Deere about this vey subject. He said it is not cost effective for them to outsource thier medical care and would not be popular with thier employees. He further said that if it was cost effective, they would do it. Do you really think that companies have not looked at this option as a way of cutting costs? Get real. They would do whatever they could to cut costs and they would do it in a heartbeat if it was financially viable for them to do so.
Of course, doctors will claim the MRI is somehow substandard or that the technicians are underqualified, in order to defend their "fair market value" price of procedures done domestically.
Have you ever read an MRI? Obviously not. There ARE huge differences in the quality of the images, such that they can be unreadable and useless. Lower magnet strength images for spine (open MRIs) often have to be repeated because we cannot see what the hell is going on. It is like looking through a glass of lemonade. If someone has good quality images (we are making surgical decisions based on these images and really need to see what is going on), we don't care where they came from. Want to operate of someone's spine with a bad MRI? Good luck there.
Yes, but amazingly no one can ever explain why. Lawsuits, uninsured, it rained last year...blah, blah.
The real answer. They are making a killing...pardon the pun.
Of course! Because we have made health into a businesss instead of a necessity. It's about who can make more money which to me, is the biggest oxymoron I've ever seen. Anyway, going back to the OP, well yes, of course overseas is cheaper because it's not a business and they don't have all the red tape we have.
I wish we had more doctors like a local doctor we have here in my neighborhood. He has his own medical office, treats anyone with or without insurance for any general medical needs (colds, physicals, regular check-ups, you get the point, like a PCP). He only charges $40 for uninsured people, regardless of income. He also owns a pharmacy next door and last week I went because I had bronchitis. I coudln't go to my PCP because he was on vacation and going to the emergency room costs an arm and a leg and takes an entire day!! Since he's also a walk-in doctor I went to his office. He diagnosed me and prescribed antibiotics. Since I have insurance I only paid my co-payment. Then when I went to buy my antibiotics the pharmacist did everything she could to get me generics and get the best price possible, I ended up paying just $10 for my prescripcion. We need more doctors like him. Sadly enough, he's the exception and not the rule. When I think of doctors like him I think of those who are not in this industry to make money but to help others.
Great- do the imaging there. Get treatment there. My MRI, two CTscans with contrast,PET scan, two surgeries, and four months of chemotherapy, and all the oncology visits cost me $1200 out of pocket. The flight tickets for each of my family members 6 months ago to Hawaii was higher. One of my associates at the VA had a child who had a multi-level fusion for scoliosis. Total cost- $165,000. Cost to him - $135. Apparently you need a better insurance plan.
The VA father -- so that's federal-government-employee insurance he has that covered his child's surgery?
That's not private insurance.
You brag about your own insurance -- duh, you're a doctor.
"Apparently you need a better insurance plan" is a pretty flippant reply, wouldnt you say?
Great- do the imaging there. Get treatment there. My MRI, two CTscans with contrast,PET scan, two surgeries, and four months of chemotherapy, and all the oncology visits cost me $1200 out of pocket. The flight tickets for each of my family members 6 months ago to Hawaii was higher. One of my associates at the VA had a child who had a multi-level fusion for scoliosis. Total cost- $165,000. Cost to him - $135. Apparently you need a better insurance plan.
Interestingly, I was chatting with an exec at John Deere about this vey subject. He said it is not cost effective for them to outsource thier medical care and would not be popular with thier employees. He further said that if it was cost effective, they would do it. Do you really think that companies have not looked at this option as a way of cutting costs? Get real. They would do whatever they could to cut costs and they would do it in a heartbeat if it was financially viable for them to do so.
No one wants to work for a company that is going to send them to India to get an MRI. That is why companies don't do it. It has nothing to do with cost.
[quote=hawkeye2009;9978760]Great- do the imaging there. Get treatment there. "Quote"
I like this Doctor it makes him so angry that you would actually go to another country to get an MRI because it is too expensive here and he won't treat you because of that. These guys don't want competition. This is a classic example. I can buy a Ford from anywhere in the world and my dealership will still fix it eventhough I did not buy it from their dealership.
This is the practice that a lot of doctors have taken to try to discourage treatment in another country. They don't want competition. We are talking about an MRI. They have no problem looking at MRI's from other doctors here. I hope people are reading this. Can you see what is wrong with our system.
And the same drugs, the exact same medicine, that sell for a fraction of the cost in Canada. Millions of dollars spent to put a stop to that -- even threats of jailing patients.
Market rate is dictated by supply and demand. The doctor's guild (basically, the "system") tries to prevent more doctors from entering the field by putting up as many roadblocks as possible. Medical schools can generate more revenue and still maintain high standards by opening up the doors a bit more. Of course, that would mean lower salaries since supply would be increased. It is the same as any other profession, and doctors are perfectly comfortable with restricting the # of graduates, using "patient safety" as a convenient alibi.
What about being a tenure track professor, being under constant pressure to publish, publish, publish? You are focusing only on museum work. Granted this is cake, but even getting a job at a museum is nearly impossible for a Ph. D. graduate in this field.
Many specialists and general practitioners do not have the life/death scenarios you eloquently describe most days in their career. Most MDs do not work for over a year on a dissertation and defend it to a committee. It is a professional doctorate, not an academic one. Apples and oranges, and to attempt to quantify their relative difficulty without having a degree in both is foolhardy.
Best value for your money: anywhere but the US. Yes, if you have infinite resources, you would get better care here. But, for realistic everyday figures relating to middle class to upper middle class individuals who do not want to roll the dice on their insurance coverage and/or post-procedure care (pre-existing conditions, crummy nurses/bedside manner/hospital conditions, etc), you will get superior care overseas any day of the week, and twice as good on Sundays.
You just admitted that competition could be problematic if you were earlier in your career.
1. "Open up med schools a little"? Okay. You are the new czar of healthcare. What average GPA and MCAT scores are good enough for you? Did you realize that there is currently a 16 to 1 ratio of applicants to acceptance rate to medical schools? Obviously, at this point you do not need to lower standards, only build more medical schools. How many? If you built 20 today, how long would it be before these docs would be in the system? Are schools not expensive? Who pays for them?
2. Medical schools are for the most part state schools. Sure- there are private schools, but the majority of medical schools and residency slots are at state institutions. Training medical students is not "profitable" to the institution and has to be supported heavily by the state and the feds. There is no "profit motive" to train more docs.
3. You actually cannot be serious about the stress level of a doc vs a PhD. That is just silly. If a PhD is so nervous about writing a dissertaion and grants, they probably need some meds. I was in academics and wrote many grant applications and published in the literature. I can assure you, it was a vacation compared to clinical practice. What I just did today would scare the living crap out of most people- job accomplished with no problems. But this ages you. Did you ever notice that the life expectancy of docs is less than that of the general public? Look it up. There is literally nothing to describe to the general public the feeling and stress of a bad situation in which YOU are responsible for someone making it or not. A grant application or publishing is very much laughable in comparison. That comparison is so wrong and inaccurate it is almost insulting.
4. Regarding overseas care- why do so many of thier patients come here for care and why do so many of thier docs want to train here?
5. Regarding your desire to seek treatment overseas- do so. That is your right and if you think it is good for you, that is great. If it is cheaper- go for it. However, I hardly think that as a person with no medical knowledge whatsoever that you are in a position to judge relative quality. Can you look at images and tell whether someone had an adequate decompression on lumbar spine images or not? How do YOU determine whether the total hip prosthesis you recieved met the American Orthopedic Standards? Gee- I guess you can't. But in spite of no knowledge, feel obligated to comment on quality issues for which you have the inability to acess. It is much the same situation as my making comments on the relative quality of Airbus vs Boeing aircraft- I have no idea. I am not an aeronautics engineer. I am, however, a physician and know a little about medicine and certainly ALOT more than a non-physcian.
6. The only "competition" from overseas treatment would be for more expensive surgery, otherwise it would not be cost effective. For the fourth time, I am nearing the end of my career, have more patients than I know what to do with, and have not and will not be impacted by overseas treatment. I don't care. I HAVE seen many foriegn trained doctors practicing in the US and there are clear differences in quality- no question. I personally would not have anyone who trained overseas (with the exception of the UK and Canada) work on me.
The VA father -- so that's federal-government-employee insurance he has that covered his child's surgery?
That's not private insurance.
You brag about your own insurance -- duh, you're a doctor.
"Apparently you need a better insurance plan" is a pretty flippant reply, wouldnt you say?
The VA father- Federal Blue Cross. It is private insurance sold to the feds. I would imagine that it is the same insurance that Obama currently holds.
I am not bragging about my insurance. I am simply pointing out that it MUST be better than yours, as it would have cost me ALOT more to be treated overseas.
Doctors can buy whatever policy they want. It is not like physicians all have the same healthcare product or the same benefits. There are alot of non-physicians (like a tool and die guy at John Deere) who have better converage than I do. There is no such thing as professional courtesy anymore.
Great- do the imaging there. Get treatment there. "Quote"
I like this Doctor it makes him so angry that you would actually go to another country to get an MRI because it is too expensive here and he won't treat you because of that. These guys don't want competition. This is a classic example. I can buy a Ford from anywhere in the world and my dealership will still fix it eventhough I did not buy it from their dealership.
This is the practice that a lot of doctors have taken to try to discourage treatment in another country. They don't want competition. We are talking about an MRI. They have no problem looking at MRI's from other doctors here. I hope people are reading this. Can you see what is wrong with our system.
That is not true. I am not angry at all. I do not care what anyone does- live free.
Again, the quality of the MRI is directly related to magnet strength. We hate open MRIs for this reason and they often have to be repeated. If they use a high quality Seimens or GE MRI overseas- great! The images would be fine. A crappy low quality MRI scan in the US would still be a crappy MRI. A high quality MRI scan from overseas would still be high qaulity. Do you guys know what Tesla strenght magnet would be okay for you to be able to read a cervical spine MRI adequately to perform an ACDF? Maybe not. Would you even know what is "high quality" and what is not"? Please explain that, as I am very entertained by your expertise in these areas. I am learning alot. I guess I did not need all that training at all. I could have just asked you guys here on the net.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
