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View Poll Results: Do you think a completely tax free society could work?
Yes, let people decide where their money goes. 27 39.13%
No, too much privatization. 42 60.87%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-28-2009, 12:24 AM
 
45 posts, read 83,180 times
Reputation: 23

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
you mean like get stuff (services) but dont have to pay for them.
isnt that rip off?
Me? No what I'm saying is the opposite. You wouldn't be taxed or have to give money too anything you didn't use as far as service wise.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Nashville
840 posts, read 2,187,670 times
Reputation: 379
This is a more ridiculous than communal system.
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:12 AM
 
16 posts, read 20,051 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by denison View Post
Me? No what I'm saying is the opposite. You wouldn't be taxed or have to give money too anything you didn't use as far as service wise.
Interesting thought, denison.

Can you name an advanced civilization anywhere that worked on such a model?

What you're proposing is anarchy.

Now, I do believe that people who wish to live together and work together can be successful, but generally only on a small scale. However, even a farm co-op has assessments. Everyone agrees to them, but only because to disagree means losing the advantages of being in the co-op.

Let's look at a few examples:

Schools. I don't have kids. Why should I pay for schooling someone else's kids? Let them cough up $20-30K per year per kid.

Wait, that's more than many parents make per year.

Well, does it harm me, as a member of society, if their kids don't learn to read? Yes or no?

How about interstate highways? How would those get funded? New ones, or even repairs to the existing ones? Would only the most important routes be maintained, or the ones used by the biggest companies? Who would decide when to repair them?

Pollution. If there's no government to speak of, then who controls discharges of toxic chemicals into a downstream town's drinking water? Do we wait until dozens of people get sick, and let them hire doctors to figure out why, and then let them sue, after their kids are all dying of leukemia (as an example)? And who runs the courts in which they will sue, if there's no government to employ judges? Who will give those courts authority?
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:24 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,852,234 times
Reputation: 1328
People are too greedy and selfish.. it's only human. As we can see, people fight adamantly against taxes, but reap the benefits every time they drive on roads, send their kids to school, etc.

Now, reforming the way tax is spent is needed, since the government spends thousands of percents above cost to buy most things.. The political buddy system needs to end and we need more transparency (not just people who say they will be more transparent).
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:57 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,861 posts, read 6,577,103 times
Reputation: 1032
I'm sure you can look to the indigenous tribes in the undeveloped countries to see what the results would be......I think I prefer having a job and our country defending itself with something more than poison darts to no taxes.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 23,363,248 times
Reputation: 8661
I'm for decreasing the overall size of the military, but we have to stay at the cutting edge of technology to stay safe in a world like ours today. Therefore, we need money for innovations that will keep us safe. I'm also a believer in the space program, as this is the future of our species. Until we can prove a profit can be made by venturing into outer space, the free market won't pick up the bill.

More importantly, what about civil projects, law enforcement, the fire department, and things of that nature. That moneys got to come from somewhere, and history has proven a privatized police force only leads to one thing, corruption.
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Old 07-28-2009, 02:56 AM
 
4,474 posts, read 5,237,402 times
Reputation: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by denison View Post
Ok, I've been mulling this over in my mind. First of all everyone is welcome to contribute to this thread. Second of all I'm not an economist, so a lot of people here will know more about this subject than me.

When I talk about tax free society, I mean completely:

-No income tax
-No sales tax
-No capital gains tax
-No property tax
-No inheritance tax etc....

The thinks that would drive this society:
-Philanthropy
-Charity/Charitable organization(instead of welfare/free social services)
-Capitalism/ Free trade/ Maximize competition

A society like this would have to have a small limited government. The government would not be an employer or collect taxes(no IRS) from people. If the people wanted new roads, better schools, better parks etc... they would get together raise the money, get the job done themselves. Firstly I think a society like this would have to be fully privatized. Private police(see article below), private healthcare, private schools, private prisons etc....

Benefits of Privatization:
- Private police - higher salary, no immunity like government police
- Private healthcare - less rationing, better services
- Private schools - higher test scores than public school
- Private prisons - could use criminals as labor force to pay off their debt

In fact I think the only tax should be a "criminal tax". So really, any law abiding citizen would be living in a completely tax free society. People who commit misdemeanors could be taxed at 1-10% for 1 - 5 yrs for punishment, or whatever rate you want to use. Harsher criminals(but not murders, rapist, pedos) could work on a prison labor force to work off their debt directly as punishment.


Free free to add how you think a society like this would work or wouldn't. It's just a thought experiment.
Firstly I must say that this sounds quite similar to that proposed by the largest theodemocratic organizations around today, the Cheldeon Foundation. Their goals is to all but eliminate g'ment, force it into the background, and let the churches take predominance in soceity for "charitable" concerns, thus eliminating g'ment taxes while creating a mandated "church tax", or tithe as they call it. The system you propose gives these people a perfect in to complete their agenda.

Anywho...

Woudln't work, not enough charitable people around. And any size g'ment requires funds to function. Forms and documents from property lots to birth certificates need filing, code enforcers are needed to keep food poisoning and collapsed buildings at bay, parks and libraries need to be kept up and stocked, etc...

Did your idea also privatize the military and foreign services, and the intell community as well?

While I agree, and advocate, smaller g'ment and fiscal responsibility, the Nation has simply become much to large and unwieldy in population to allow an elimination of all taxes, IMHO.
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:50 AM
 
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
558 posts, read 782,574 times
Reputation: 214
I think it could work, but I think you'd still have many of the same problems we have today. What would happen when a company became too powerful? Would it be satisfied with its profits or would its leaders thirst for more? Instead of nations warring with one another and oppressing their citizens, you'd have private corporations doing it. I assume this is why you said such a society would require a small, limited government. But such a government would also need teeth to enfore the few laws it passed.

I believe we need to focus on improving our technology. I'd love to see sophisticated AI (governed by the three laws of robotics) eventually replace people in leadership positions.
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:10 AM
 
8,132 posts, read 7,430,219 times
Reputation: 12405
Cool Great idea -- it's called VOTING!

I always wonder about people that make comments like this, do you VOTE?

If you don't like your taxes, have you written to your government representatives? More effectively, have you gone to meet with them and asked them what the taxes are used for? I'm guessing NOT.

We had a repeal of taxes in WA, thanks to a man named Tim Eyman. Because of his hard efforts, our highway maintenance was reduced, bus and
ferry schedules were cut, amongst other infrastructure.

So, go ahead, repeal those taxes. When your tires are flattened because of the pot holes, your street lights go dark and your crime rates rise -- (because, yes, your public servants payroll cuts reduce the number of cops to patrol), and your kids' schools stop providing books, you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Of course, you will blame everyone but yourself, because that's what we people do -- blame "them."
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:19 AM
 
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
558 posts, read 782,574 times
Reputation: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
I always wonder about people that make comments like this, do you VOTE?

If you don't like your taxes, have you written to your government representatives? More effectively, have you gone to meet with them and asked them what the taxes are used for? I'm guessing NOT.

We had a repeal of taxes in WA, thanks to a man named Tim Eyman. Because of his hard efforts, our highway maintenance was reduced, bus and
ferry schedules were cut, amongst other infrastructure.

So, go ahead, repeal those taxes. When your tires are flattened because of the pot holes, your street lights go dark and your crime rates rise -- (because, yes, your public servants payroll cuts reduce the number of cops to patrol), and your kids' schools stop providing books, you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Of course, you will blame everyone but yourself, because that's what we people do -- blame "them."
Private ferries, schools, security must not exist. Oh, wait....
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