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View Poll Results: Do you think a completely tax free society could work?
Yes, let people decide where their money goes. 27 39.13%
No, too much privatization. 42 60.87%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-29-2009, 06:42 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 21,040,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graceC View Post
The only reason for corporations and rich people to set up your so called 'philanthropy" efforts is to get a tax write off. Now that you take away the tax benefit from them, there's no more reason for them for charity, is there?
Then why did rich people do it BEFORE there were tax write offs?
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,477 posts, read 56,999,221 times
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We have tried the type of society and government that would fit the OP's proposals.

It is called feudalism with slavery. It did not work very well after firearms were invented. Freehold farmers do not like being considered slaves or having to compete with slave operated latifundia. We replaced it with tax supported Republics.

The OP society might also be an open anarchy where the fastest gun eventually becomes King.
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:53 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,556 posts, read 21,040,101 times
Reputation: 2518
There was taxation in medieval times.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:27 PM
 
4,474 posts, read 5,237,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
could you provide anything to support your position?
If that was directed at me...

Plain logic supports my position.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:33 PM
 
4,474 posts, read 5,237,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
I shall agree to a point, public services are needed. but welfare programs and entitlement programs provided by the federal goverment are not needed.

you also have to remember, that most of the public services are provided for and by the local and state goverments.
Welfare and "entitlement prorgams" were meant as a safety parachute, to help people who hit rock bottom utill they recovered from a financial catastrophy. They also provide support and independant living for those unable to work through handicaps and/or injury, and, I believe, would turn out to be much more cost effective than maintaining state institutions to care for these people. As this helps the economy en whole, these programs are neccessary.

However, I CERTAINLY agree that those programs have become heavily abused, and changes are neccessary to ensure ONLY those who require those programs recieve those benefits. Doing so, I believe, would drastically cut the costs of those programs.

Also, local and State levels to administer those programs. However, they are largely funded and/or subsidized by the federal level.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:52 PM
 
4,474 posts, read 5,237,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostInTheShell View Post
It proves that privatized firefighting may or may not work.

Your argument would be like someone in 1900 saying, "Human flight won't work. History proves it."
And how long before "fire insurance" means what level of fire fighting one gets, based on their graduated premiums?

How long before those that can afford the top brackets get interior fighfighters and smoke/water damage control, while those that cannot afford it get a surround and drown? The proverbail "chuck the rubber ducky in the basement, and hope the fire ventaliates itself?"
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:55 PM
 
1,238 posts, read 1,358,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
And how long before "fire insurance" means what level of fire fighting one gets, based on their graduated premiums?

How long before those that can afford the top brackets get interior fighfighters and smoke/water damage control, while those that cannot afford it get a surround and drown? The proverbail "chuck the rubber ducky in the basement, and hope the fire ventaliates itself?"
Yes your argument makes a lot more sense when you can just make crap up. But you aren't basing this on anything, and it should be forgotten immediately.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:36 PM
 
1,043 posts, read 1,233,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denison View Post
Ok, I've been mulling this over in my mind. First of all everyone is welcome to contribute to this thread. Second of all I'm not an economist, so a lot of people here will know more about this subject than me.

When I talk about tax free society, I mean completely:

-No income tax
-No sales tax
-No capital gains tax
-No property tax
-No inheritance tax etc....

The thinks that would drive this society:
-Philanthropy
-Charity/Charitable organization(instead of welfare/free social services)
-Capitalism/ Free trade/ Maximize competition

A society like this would have to have a small limited government. The government would not be an employer or collect taxes(no IRS) from people. If the people wanted new roads, better schools, better parks etc... they would get together raise the money, get the job done themselves. Firstly I think a society like this would have to be fully privatized. Private police(see article below), private healthcare, private schools, private prisons etc....

Benefits of Privatization:
- Private police - higher salary, no immunity like government police
- Private healthcare - less rationing, better services
- Private schools - higher test scores than public school
- Private prisons - could use criminals as labor force to pay off their debt

In fact I think the only tax should be a "criminal tax". So really, any law abiding citizen would be living in a completely tax free society. People who commit misdemeanors could be taxed at 1-10% for 1 - 5 yrs for punishment, or whatever rate you want to use. Harsher criminals(but not murders, rapist, pedos) could work on a prison labor force to work off their debt directly as punishment.


Free free to add how you think a society like this would work or wouldn't. It's just a thought experiment.

This sort of society actually existed at one point in the United States. Those of you who are from the state of New York will be familiar with the story Brentwood

"Brentwood used to be known as Modern Times. Modern Times was an individualist anarchist, utopian colony begun on March 21, 1851 on 750 acres (3 km²) of land on Long Island, New York, by Josiah Warren, Christian Sorto, and Stephen Pearl Andrews. By contract, all land was bought and sold at cost, with 3 acres (12,000 m2) being the maximum allowable lot size. The community was said to be based in the idea of "individual sovereignty" and "individual responsibility." There was an understanding that there was to be no initiation of coercion, leaving all individuals to pursue their self-interest as they saw fit. All products of labor were considered private property. The community had a local private currency based upon labor exchange in order to trade goods and services (see Mutualism). All land was private property, with the exception of alleys which were initially considered common property but later converted to private property. No system of authority existed in the colony. There were no courts, no jails, and no police; yet, there are no reports of any problem with crime existing there. This appears to have given some credence to Warren's theories that the most significant cause of violence in society was most attributable to policies and law "


Brentwood, New York - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I think it could work and this an example of how it would work. I think we already see it working in small towns where the towns people have known each other all of there lives. However, the only difference is these small towns still pay local, state, and federal taxes, but the small government limited authority exist. It does not exist in spirit as some of the towns services are sponsored by the state, but in theory it is as close as we get in the US this day in age.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Boise
4,426 posts, read 5,695,375 times
Reputation: 1700
this is a stupid idea,
how would anything roads, schools, ANYTHING public exist in it's current form???
what happens when church's start owning streets and trains??
What happens when christian haters start owning streets, roads, and everything currently public???
they will get to impose their "rules" upon their property.. and civil liberties will disappear...

I realize paying taxes is one of those things that shoots us all in the pocketbook, but it does serve a purpose, a valid, good purpose.. the problem is the mismanagement of tax revenue is the real problem.. so keep it on that..
don't throw the baby out with the bathwater...
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Old 07-29-2009, 02:17 PM
 
26,666 posts, read 27,500,054 times
Reputation: 7936
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
you also have to remember, that most of the public services are provided for and by the local and state goverments.
Yes, I know, but that's what the OP was talking about - no taxes even at the state and local level.
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