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Old 07-31-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,815,033 times
Reputation: 10789

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
How much of those profits are plowed back into R&D ?
Insurance companies have Research and Development?
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:31 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,125,541 times
Reputation: 11095
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Insurance companies have Research and Development?
Another poster already answered your question...they research and develop ways to not pay out on claims, deny coverage and raise premiums.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,815,033 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
I know of no one who is paid a bonus to deny needed tests or treatments. I would like to make sure everyone who works has a government agency sign off on how much they can make like they are trying to do on Wall Street and in health care.
Because you don't know about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist!

Quote:
Results Data were analyzed for 766 physicians involved in managed-care systems. Thirty-eight percent of these physicians reported that their arrangements with the managed-care system included some type of incentive in the form of a bonus. Fifty-seven percent of the physicians reported that they felt pressure from the managed-care organization to limit referrals (17 percent said they believed such pressure compromised patient care), and 75 percent felt pressure to see more patients per day (24 percent believed such pressure compromised patient care). The physicians who reported that their financial arrangements included an incentive based on referrals were more likely than others to have felt pressure to limit referrals in a manner that compromised care (adjusted odds ratio, 2.5; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.2 to 5.0), and physicians with an incentive based on productivity were more likely to have felt a pressure to see more patients that they believed compromised care (adjusted odds ratio, 2.1; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.2 to 3.8). The physicians whose health care systems used incentives keyed to productivity were less likely than others to be very satisfied with their practices (adjusted odds ratio, 0.4; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.2 to 0.6), whereas those whose systems included incentives related to the quality of care or patients' satisfaction were more likely to be very satisfied (adjusted odds ratio, 1.8; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.1 to 3.0).

NEJM -- Primary Care Physicians' Experience of Financial Incentives in Managed-Care Systems

I can also show you links explaining how drug companies pay doctors to prescribe their medications.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,752,619 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Because you don't know about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist!




NEJM -- Primary Care Physicians' Experience of Financial Incentives in Managed-Care Systems

I can also show you links explaining how drug companies pay doctors to prescribe their medications.
Nope, I said needed tests. No where in your post did a physician say they denied a needed test or treatment. Incentivising physicians to contain costs does not equal incestivising physicians to do harm to patients.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,815,033 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Nope, I said needed tests. No where in your post did a physician say they denied a needed test or treatment. Incentivising physicians to contain costs does not equal incestivising physicians to do harm to patients.
If the patient doesn't get a referral to a specialist, that patient doesn't get the tests or specialized treatments the specialist would have ordered.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:50 PM
 
4,104 posts, read 5,309,861 times
Reputation: 1256
Lets look at Apple Computer's profit for fiscal year 2007:

Sales: $32.4 billion
Gross Profit: $11.145 BILLION

GP percentage: 34.3%

Anybody want to guess what the underlying value of Steve Jobs stock options was?

Some of you guys are foolish! I don't see anybody protesting Congress to lower the price of iPods and MacBooks.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,752,619 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
If the patient doesn't get a referral to a specialist, that patient doesn't get the tests or specialized treatments the specialist would have ordered.
Nope, that is cost containment. If the patient doesn't require a specialist referral they won't get one You don't know much about healthcare do you?

By the way UHC will lead to just such an arrangement.

Massachussetts Health Plan Pushes for Capitation - Megan McArdle
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,815,033 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Nope, I said needed tests. No where in your post did a physician say they denied a needed test or treatment. Incentivising physicians to contain costs does not equal incestivising physicians to do harm to patients.
Quote:
The Supreme Court heard oral arguments last month in a high-profile case that turns on whether financial incentives to limit or deny care violate a plan’s fiduciary duties under the federal Employment Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA). A decision is expected in June.

The case, known as Pegram v. Herdrich, was accepted by the Court after a federal appeals court ruled in favor of Cynthia Herdrich of Illinois. She alleged that her HMO and its health plan violated their fiduciary responsibilities under ERISA by giving its physicians financial incentives to deny care.
Supreme Court to Decide Legality of Physician Bonuses
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,346,581 times
Reputation: 1633
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D View Post
Lets look at Apple Computer's profit for fiscal year 2007:

Sales: $32.4 billion
Gross Profit: $11.145 BILLION

GP percentage: 34.3%

Anybody want to guess what the underlying value of Steve Jobs stock options was?

Some of you guys are foolish! I don't see anybody protesting Congress to lower the price of iPods and MacBooks.
I don't need a ipod or a macbook to survive.....
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,752,619 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
OK What was the outcome?

Oops the court ruled unanimously in favor of the HMO!

http://www.yale.edu/yjhple/volume_1/pdf/187%20(jost).pdf (broken link)
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