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Old 07-30-2009, 04:53 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,040,880 times
Reputation: 6194

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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Oh, it's nice to see that you addressed the issue instead of me personally. Not so passive aggressive this time around are you? Love the feistiness! Still upset because your arguments regarding the Mayo Clinic were proven to be unsound

The point is attorney's fees are driving up the cost of health care by forcing doctors and hospitals to make decisions that protect them from litigation. The fact that an attorney claims an $83,000 fee for a case is not enough money is evidence of the mentality that seeks outrageous claims.
Nope, I was addressing you.

Thanks for admitting that the point of your OP was punitive damages as they affect the medical community. Your thread title is misleading in that case. I think that's against the TOS.

I hope all C-D readers will see through the insulting, faux-outraged, bait-and-switch attempt to sucker them in using the old standby "crazy lawyer fees!" as bait.

Thanks also for reminding me about the Mayo Clinic thread, Ill go give it a look later.
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:54 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,224,761 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgod View Post
azriverfan wrote;

$83K is "amazing" if all the plaintiff's attorney does is read a few pages of files, write a couple of letters and the defendant's attorney folds. But that isn't what insurance industry attorneys do, unless they know their guy is so negligent that the policy will get "thrown in".

The attorney's light, phone and rent bills go on all the time. His receptionist and legal secretary get paid all the time. Every time he has to haul down to court, to hear yet again that the defendant's attorney wants yet another postponement he's doing work that he can't bill anyone else for.

It's not like the attorney gets $83K and he gets to keep it all. And just because YOU have a steady paycheck of $385.60 showing up every week or two, with all deductions handled, doesn't mean he does. That $83K is GROSS INCOME, from which both sides of SS/Medicare (about 15%) comes out, health insurance, and all the other stuff that your employer (assuming you're not self-employed, because only "employees" tend to think the way that you do) normally takes care of for you.

True, but if the primary care physicians are self-employed, they're never going to be able to pay back their school loans.
The attorney is also working on more than one case at a time. That fee is for one case, I think he can pay his utilities and legal secretary with that. It's not like he is forced to leasing a large office with multiple examining rooms, equipment and 2 receptionists, an office manager, 2 nurses and 2 medical assistants. He is also not paying for malpractice insurance and his education debt is considerably cheaper since he didn't have to do a residency and could start earning money right away.
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:00 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,224,761 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Nope, I was addressing you.

Thanks for admitting that the point of your OP was punitive damages as they affect the medical community.

Thanks also for reminding me about the Mayo Clinic thread(s), Ill go give it a look later.
This was my response:
"The point is attorney's fees are driving up the cost of health care by forcing doctors and hospitals to make decisions that protect them from litigation."

Driving up the cost of health care affects everyone. But I'm sure you just "missed that" right? It had nothing to do with the fact that you are trying to disagree with me would it? Nah, you are much too objective for that
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,040,426 times
Reputation: 954
The attorney will be luck to take 1/2 of that out in salary. That's if he wins. If he loses, he has all the expense ~$40,000 and zero revenue. I'm not sure what the overall economics of a case are, but it isn't $83k in income for every case he takes.

How many doctors will treat patients on a success basis?
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:04 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,040,880 times
Reputation: 6194
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
This was my response:
"The point is attorney's fees are driving up the cost of health care by forcing doctors and hospitals to make decisions that protect them from litigation."

Driving up the cost of health care affects everyone. But I'm sure you just "missed that" right? It had nothing to do with the fact that you are trying to disagree with me would it? Nah, you are much too objective for that
What I missed was any mention of health care, health insurance reform, doctors, hospitals, nurses, patients, gift shops or parking garages in your misleading thread title and your OP.
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:11 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,224,761 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
The attorney will be luck to take 1/2 of that out in salary. That's if he wins. If he loses, he has all the expense ~$40,000 and zero revenue. I'm not sure what the overall economics of a case are, but it isn't $83k in income for every case he takes.

How many doctors will treat patients on a success basis?
Why are his expenses $40,000 per case? Did you just make that number up? Don't tell me it's paralegal fees because I showed the average annual paralegal salary is 44,000 per year. And I understand he is responsible for paying his taxes and expenses but it still doesn't take away from the fact the attorney is making nearly 83K in fees per case.

Furthermore, most of these personal injury attorneys settle out of court. It's believed somewhere between 80%-92% of all cases are settled out of court. Most physicians settle out of court because it costs them less to settle than to go to trial. The attorneys risk nothing by filing these frivolous lawsuits which is why the ones that do go to trial are won by the physicians in over 70% of jury trials.
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:20 PM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,040,880 times
Reputation: 6194
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
The attorney is also working on more than one case at a time. That fee is for one case, I think he can pay his utilities and legal secretary with that. It's not like he is forced to leasing a large office with multiple examining rooms, equipment and 2 receptionists, an office manager, 2 nurses and 2 medical assistants. He is also not paying for malpractice insurance and his education debt is considerably cheaper since he didn't have to do a residency and could start earning money right away.
Do you know how long those cases drag on? Then settlement takes time too.

"forced [in]to leasing a large office....his education debt is considerably cheaper since he didn't have to do a residency and could start earning money right away" -- this just sounds so bitter and petty. You're blessed to be a doctor, be happy.
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Old 07-30-2009, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,040,426 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Why are his expenses $40,000 per case? Did you just make that number up? Don't tell me it's paralegal fees because I showed the average annual paralegal salary is 44,000 per year. And I understand he is responsible for paying his taxes and expenses but it still doesn't take away from the fact the attorney is making nearly 83K in fees per case.

Furthermore, most of these personal injury attorneys settle out of court. It's believed somewhere between 80%-92% of all cases are settled out of court. Most physicians settle out of court because it costs them less to settle than to go to trial. The attorneys risk nothing by filing these frivolous lawsuits which is why the ones that do go to trial are won by the physicians in over 70% of jury trials.
How many cardiac cases do you see on a success fee basis?
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Old 07-30-2009, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Turn Left at Greenland
17,763 posts, read 39,610,990 times
Reputation: 8243
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
I was joking. I have no idea how much you guys get paid to take the stand. I was making fun of you saying that lawyers get paid $700 an hour. So you were saying you get paid $15,000 just to take the stand. At most you would be on the stand a couple of hours. That is $7,500 an hour. What point were you making about lawyers gettiing paid too much. oh yeah 83K not enough.
O.K. lets use your number of 15K to start with . Now the lawyer is looking at 68,000. This type of case would take at least the use of a paralegal. The time amount for the paralegal to help prepare the case for trial, could cost about 16,000. Now we are at 53,000. Now you are talking about how much the lawyer is going to make IF HE WINS. However as you stated before 90% of the cases that go to trial lose. If he loses, he still has to pay the Doctor, you guys don't work on a contingency basis and his paralegal, which means he has a 90% chance of paying $31,000 out of his pocket for taking the case for a 10% chance of making 53,000. Only a person with poor math skills would take that case.

In the 90's I worked for a law firm that billed out it's bigwigs at $500 an hour. I'd imagine that since I left in 2000, they're getting paid over $600 an hour now. This firm got caught up in the starting salary wars of the 90's too ... it was ridiculous. They took the bull by the horns and paid law students coming out of law school $140K a year ... this is for a 25 year old! And then they had the nerver to whine to me about how that's still not enough!

That's a rant on my part, but if an attorney is a lone wolf, that settlement money gets spread around.
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:50 PM
 
4,104 posts, read 5,294,050 times
Reputation: 1256
Don't cry too hard liberals. You are going to tax all these rich guys to pay for your "free" healthcare, remember?
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