Obama's birth certificate: The "birthers" and the sudden hatred of transparency (ethical, Reagan)
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I don't think you are being fair to Obama - he IS dealing with this. He's spent a MILLION dollars so far to suppress all of his records and keep them sealed.
That's some pretty serious "dealing".
He hasn't sealed anything. You're just repeating a birther mantra without doing any research to confirm it.
Just as I cannot call your hometown and obtain a copy of your BC, or your college transcripts. Did you SEAL them? No.
When did blind faith become a virtue?
I have asked this before (http://media.www.vainformer.com/media/storage/paper1335/news/2008/04/23/SignedEditorials/From-Dream.To.Reality.The.Informer.Then.Now.And.Into.Th e.Future-3372570.shtml - broken link), and the answer is never easy. But to try to simplify it: When the Left has decided something is a fact, it becomes one. Or, in the words of Vladamir Lenin, "A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
But, true to the Left's ways, the Obama White House has refused to acknowledge that a controversy exists. Others on the Left are dismissing it as foolish because they don't believe it, and if they don't find the debate "academic" enough for their taste, it does not exist. Where have we seen this before?
It never ceases to amaze that the Left will go out of its way to forge documents about George W Bush's national guard service to "prove" that he never served, but will not even bother to make sure Obama's basic papers are in order, nor acknowledge that it is a little fishy that the documents are locked away, never to be seen again. The "birthers" are scorned and ridiculed constantly for daring to ask "Let's see some ID." (Perhaps now we know why Obama quickly sided with Professor Gates when he likewise had an issue with that request).
Blah, blah, blah. Provide a conspiracy theory. You know, a THEORY. When did the conspiracy start, who was involved, why was a conspiracy started. When you can actually provide a sensible, rational theory, then maybe the rest of us will stop laughing. But in the meantime, this whole issue is pathetic.
This is too funny. I have not seen my long form birth certificate in years and I doubt that I can actually get one from the Department of Vital Records in New York. The same type of certificate that Obama showed is basically what I use for proof of birth, whether it's for a driver's license or passport. Hawaii probably doesn't even issue a long form birth certificate so requesting one would be like beating your head against a wall.
I don't think you are being fair to Obama - he IS dealing with this. He's spent a MILLION dollars so far to suppress all of his records and keep them sealed.
That's some pretty serious "dealing".
Actually Obama was awarded court costs in 2 separate cases!
Hawaii probably doesn't even issue a long form birth certificate so requesting one would be like beating your head against a wall.
true, there is no choice of certificate type on the form to request a birth certificate in hawaii. you just request a birth certificate, and you get what obama has. it says right on it that it is admissable in court. maybe the president could make a special request to get a photocopy of the original record, i'm not sure about that. but it's not necessary.
if birthers don't think that the certificate is a forgery, then they should cede the case because the birth certificate itself says that it is good enough proof for a court of law!
if birthers do think that the certificate is a forgery, then they think the hawaiian state government is in on the conspiracy.
there is only one side of this debate that keeps presenting documents proven to be forged as evidence.
then they should cede the case because the birth certificate itself says that it is good enough proof for a court of law!
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That is not what Prima Facia means, read up. For example you could take an image with your camera which is automatically copyrighted by yourself, I could register that image to myself at the copyright office. The registration would provide "Prima Facia" Evidence that I am the copyright owner. Doesn't mean it's the truth or will hold up under a court of law.
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He HAS provided a certified copy of his birth certificate for public examination,
AFAIK the only copy that has been provided to anyone was provided to factcheck.org and their ability to remain unbiased in this has been questioned.
That is not what Prima Facia means, read up. For example you could take an image with your camera which is automatically copyrighted by yourself, I could register that image to myself at the copyright office. The registration would provide "Prima Facia" Evidence that I am the copyright owner. Doesn't mean it's the truth or will hold up under a court of law.
AFAIK the only copy that has been provided to anyone was provided to factcheck.org and the ability o remain unbiased in this has been questioned.
The State of Hawaii has verified that President Obama was born in Honolulu. That will hold up in a court of law.
I agree. I voted for the guy and still support him through these trying times.....but for gods sake, I just wish he'd pony up his birth certificate for public examination and put this deal to bed.
Again, even though I voted for him I'm getting disgusted that he won't just deal with this so we can move on....enough already !
I think the posters above you were being sarcastic. No other president has been subjected to this much scrutiny about a BC, college records, high school records (for G**'s sake), etc. One of our "birther" friends on this forum said "but, but, but, there was not question about any other pres' citizenship", when in fact, there was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby
I don't think you are being fair to Obama - he IS dealing with this. He's spent a MILLION dollars so far to suppress all of his records and keep them sealed.
That's some pretty serious "dealing".
This has been debunked over and over and over agian.
That is not what Prima Facia means, read up. For example you could take an image with your camera which is automatically copyrighted by yourself, I could register that image to myself at the copyright office. The registration would provide "Prima Facia" Evidence that I am the copyright owner. Doesn't mean it's the truth or will hold up under a court of law.
it's evidence that unless rebutted holds up as proof of a fact.
what rebuttals have the birthers provided, besides fake kenyan birth certificates? with the evidence he has provided, the burden of proof is on them to prove that he is not a citizen.
there is lots of evidence backing up the assertion that the birth certificate is in fact real (the birth announcements in hawaii, the statements of hawaiian officials). none backing up the assertion that it is fake.
The State of Hawaii has verified that President Obama was born in Honolulu. That will hold up in a court of law.
I'm on the fence about this issue myself, my only concern is they fight this at every turn and if they simply handed over the requested documents it would put it to rest for most people like myself. Obama and the people handling this situation are just as much to blame as those pushing the issue because instead of putting the fire out they keep pouring gasoline on it.
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