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Which is of NO CONSEQUENCE to those in the United States.
it is when Americans say we shoulnd't have a UHC because the health care in a UHC like Uk is inadequate
It's EXTREMELY Relative.. if you are going to bring something into "evidence" so to speak, then you be prepared to have it addressed in cross examination..
it is when Americans say we shoulnd't have a UHC because the health care in a UHC like Uk is inadequate
It's EXTREMELY Relative.. if you are going to bring something into "evidence" so to speak, then you be prepared to have it addressed in cross examination..
The fact that there is a UHC in the UK is of no consequence due to the fact that they have a different system of taxation, of government, a different Constitution and different rights - than we do in the United States.
The fact is TM - that systems such as in France, the UK, Japan etc are financially breaking those countries (Japan is having to close many hospitals as an example) and causing the rate of taxation to skyrocket.
The fact is (and polls back this up) that a majority of Americans are happy with their health care / health insurance. That it is, in fact, a small minority that do not have insurance or inadequate care - And, something needs to be done about this group - no question about it.
One of the proposals in the GOP plan before the Congress is to provide a subsidy to members of this group (amount determined by family size and other factors) that will allow these people to go and purchase insurance that they, the individual, feels will best meet their needs.
Its nice the UK has their system - we are not going to have a "UK type" system in the US. Hence the irrelevance
Originally Posted by Nomander How many of those are they and how do you know for sure that it doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey
There are quite a few more than people imagine. And I know for sure because I am one of them. I was born with a genetic disorder that is life threatening. Easily treatable, yes... but only if the insurance company will cover me.
Everyone always seems to forget people like me.
I also have a disease my lifestyle had NOTHING to do with. Multiple Sclerosis is not a disease one can prevent nor do they know what caused it. My good friend has Parkinson's. She didn't cause that. Another friend of mine has ALS. He did NOTHING to deserve this disease. All of these diseases have expensive treatments and no cure.
What state are you in? I've been self-employed, and therefor self-insured for most of my working life. Excellent health, good cholesterol, BP etc. I've been paying over $250/month for catastrophic coverage. That means no Dr. Visits, no prescriptions, $5,000 deductible, then 80/20 after that. Are you telling me you're getting two people with all the stuff you listed for $300?
If so, I'd say good luck with ever getting to collect anything. Lots of companies promise the moon, they just never deliver.
golfgod
He provided a great quote and the best you could come up with was to contrive some unproven rhetoric about how he won't be able to collect because his policy was cheap. This is why people get upset at some members. Some people will say anything for the sake of argument. How do you know for a fact that he won't be able to collect? You don't know that.
The fact that there is a UHC in the UK is of no consequence due to the fact that they have a different system of taxation, of government, a different Constitution and different rights - than we do in the United States.
The fact is TM - that systems such as in France, the UK, Japan etc are financially breaking those countries (Japan is having to close many hospitals as an example) and causing the rate of taxation to skyrocket.
The fact is (and polls back this up) that a majority of Americans are happy with their health care / health insurance. That it is, in fact, a small minority that do not have insurance or inadequate care - And, something needs to be done about this group - no question about it.
One of the proposals in the GOP plan before the Congress is to provide a subsidy to members of this group (amount determined by family size and other factors) that will allow these people to go and purchase insurance that they, the individual, feels will best meet their needs.
Its nice the UK has their system - we are not going to have a "UK type" system in the US. Hence the irrelevance
This is a great response. Many Americans believe the UHC have similar tax policies to the United States with the exception that they just magically afford universal health care. In Sweden, a family of 2 children pays an income tax rate of 42% while their American counterparts pay 12%. Overall, these countries pay nearly twice as much in taxes.
Americans like Tristansmommy want their cake and to eat it too. They want the great things this country provides like low taxes (relative to other countries) but then they want universal health care. France might have great health care but when nearly 80% of your income is going to taxes, you can see why they have these social services. Sorry but I don't want to give 80% of my income to the government. It's not a secret but the misinformed in this country just think our government is evil.
I've never lived in a country with UHC, have never had a problem with my healthcare, nor has anyone in my family. For the past 10 years my employers have paid 100% of my healthcare.
I have no interest in another tax forcing me to pay for healthcare for others.
YOU'RE ALREADY PAYING FOR OTHERS UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM. And you're paying a LOT more than you should have to! When the uninsured go to emergency rooms and can't pay their bills, who do you think the hospitals pass along that cost to? When the insured who are denied coverage under their policy, have to file bankruptcy and lose their homes because they can't pay their medical bills, who do you think the doctors and health care professionals and institutions pass that cost on to?
YOU!
And you're paying out the ying-yang for it! Why do you want to keep paying so much FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S HEALTH CARE???
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn
I'd go beyond that. I would pursue charges of premeditated capital homicide, with the death penalty entirely on the table for all corporate officers and decisionmakers involved in the death.
I love that idea. Especially considering it's the same people who are fighting to keep this system of executives getting to decide who has to die for their bottom line, who are the ones who want to institute the death penalty for doctors who assist women who are exercising their own personal right to choose what happens to their own bodies, I don't see why they wouldn't fully support this great idea! Life-takers die. Easy, peasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosinante
What does practically universal mean?
It means exactly what the supporting link I provided says -- a mere 1% of respondents think there's nothing wrong with our current health care system. That makes it a practically universal opinion that the system is broken. Follow the links. . .
Originally Posted by Nomander How many of those are they and how do you know for sure that it doesn't?
I also have a disease my lifestyle had NOTHING to do with. Multiple Sclerosis is not a diease one can prevent nor do they know what caused it. My good friend has Parkinson's. She didn't cause that. Another friend of mine has ALS. He did NOTHING to deserve this disease. All of these diseases have expensive treatments and no cure.
I have Gaucher's. Completely inherited, and not one of the disorders that is routinely checked in prenatal tests. Yeah, it's a bummer... but people like me and you (and your friends) exist, even though many don't want to think about it. I'm starting to get involved in patient advocacy for my disorder and it's quite interesting to see how insurance companies screw people over.
There are quite a few more than people imagine. And I know for sure because I am one of them. I was born with a genetic disorder that is life threatening. Easily treatable, yes... but only if the insurance company will cover me.
Everyone always seems to forget people like me.
You are not the standard or the norm. We can play with numbers and claim "quite a few" and use it to institute policy, but then we would just be deviously manipulating the position to our bias.
We can not legislate general policy making all accountable to every individual persons issue.
We are all dealt the hands we are dealt. Some get good hands and play them poorly. Some get bad hands and play them exceptionally. It is not the hand that determines the success, but the actions of the person holding the cards.
My point in the original post was that everyone thinks they are due something, that society should take care of their problems. For each excuse made to support this topic, so can excuses be made to support related ones. The exercise, diet, and lifestyle issues can also be used to justify regulation of freedoms and the responsibilities associated with them. It is reasoned as a necessity to help people, yet it is an impractical excuse to support a position. I was trying to point that out to the poster I was discussing with because they used "living and dying" as a "reason" for enforcing taxation, restrictions of freedoms and oppressive regulations. Anything can be justified using emotional means.
You were born with a genetic disorder, this is not the fault of anyone else nor would I even say it is your fault. It is what it is. You can accept the handicap of your position and work a way to overcome it yourself, or you can insist others pay for your problems.
The essence of responsibility is to accept ones own problems as their own and not attempt to lay them at the feet of others. That does not mean you are not worthy of help, it merely means that you fully accept your position as your own and understand the wrongful action of demanding from others.
I asked how many because there are many donation organizations willing to help with such issues. There are numerous stories of people receiving help for like issues from small churches to large organizations.
These things may not always work out as planned, but in your situation there is always taking care of yourself. That is, if there are no options that exist through the charity of society, then you take matters into your own hands and fund it yourself be it through private loans, working out a long term payment option with the treatment center or numerous other options.
You may not like the fact that it is expensive and results in a large sums that you will be in debt for constantly, but it would be taking responsibility for yourself and your conditions in order to continue to stay healthy. Your life will likely not be as normal and with as many opportunities as others, but it will be a life you control, you decide, and one you are responsible for.
There are many ways to approach problems like your without using force to achieve it and make no mistake, these government systems are nothing but force.
I have Gaucher's. Completely inherited, and not one of the disorders that is routinely checked in prenatal tests. Yeah, it's a bummer... but people like me and you (and your friends) exist, even though many don't want to think about it. I'm starting to get involved in patient advocacy for my disorder and it's quite interesting to see how insurance companies screw people over.
The issue is not that you exist or not, rather that your numbers are likely nowhere near a factor to even suggest generalized policies on the populace. I do not discount people who have these issues, I just know that thinking practically, we can not force an entire system to cater to a standard that is likely a severe minority. It is not just in any sense of the word.
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