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Old 08-04-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,835 posts, read 8,423,051 times
Reputation: 8564

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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post

Does nobody look at the "Location:" field that's in every post I write??
I did. And I even provided you with a link to the plan you found, as it applies to your state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post

Read his post..he went shopping for insurance for himself..not you.
You need to do your own shopping to find the right plan for you.
Comment on HIS plan, not how his plan won't fit your needs.
Sorry, but you're wrong. He publicly posted this plan he found, as evidence that there really is no such thing as unaffordable health care and therefore no crisis. It's perfectly reasonable to point out to him that what applies to him and his family doesn't apply to everyone else in the country, and he is not free to extrapolate about the health care of the nation as a whole, based on an internet quote that applies to his specific health care needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post

For an office call? You need to find a new doctor...
No, you need to get some better information as to what health care costs are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger

No need to be rude, and for the record, you're incorrect. I have had these things done in my life, you know, and I've seen the bills. I know what a chest X-ray costs, and what a cholesterol test costs. Basic tests for basic health care - those are my primary concerns right now.
My apologies, it was not my intention to be rude. It was merely an observation that you are not fully informed as to what health care costs are, or can become. And even if you do know what a cholesterol test costs, you don't have any idea what kind of health care needs to anticipate, and what the costs of those might be. I didn't expect to get a thyroid disease in my 40s, or fall off my bike and wind up with osteoarthritis in my spine from my injuries.

And I can't for the life of me, figure out why you'd want to risk your family's future by not making yourself more aware of what the risks of being un- and under-insured are. Nor why you think that because you found for yourself, what would be woefully inadequate coverage for millions of others, that that means there's no crisis in our current system that has to be addressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger

Who said that I thought that? It certainly wasn't me.
As I said above, if that wasn't your point, then why post the details of some random quote you found on the internet, and make the declaration that if you can find something this cheap, there's no crisis for the rest of us? From your OP:

"What I found was that as long as you're not wanting every single nickle and dime covered, the plans are actually pretty affordable."

I am, and always have been, convinced that there is no "health care crisis" in this country."
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger

Back off your confrontational stance and try to have a conversation. We both might learn something. If you're just going to get in my face, I'll just tune you out. What would the point be in that?
Again, my apologies. When you post things like,

"Good little liberal cheerleader. Rah! Rah! Rah!

There is no health care crisis."


I don't come in expecting you to be interested in a reasonable conversation. I'll be happy to reign in my defensiveness if you'll stop with the baiting. Fair enough?
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:59 PM
 
6,734 posts, read 9,325,964 times
Reputation: 1857
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
You clearly saw something that set you off, and you zero'd in on it without reading the rest of the post.
The statement that set me off was: "There are some things in the list I'd like to see tweaked, but it's really not that bad of a deal. It's certainly not indicative of a "crisis." Would it be a free ride if there was a major accident or illness? No. Would it bankrupt us? No. There's enough coverage there to ensure that we'd get the care we need, and we'd just have to tighten our belts for a while."

and: "there is no "health care crisis" in this country."


Are you out of your mind? Do you even know how much the bill would be for a medical catastrophe? If money is/was the reason you don't have a family policy, then you couldn't afford a catastrophic illness. My father had a heart attack and heart surgery at Abbot Northwest. The bill was well over $100K. Luckily the have Medicare and Humana Gold. Plus their loaded You talk about tightening your belts. You would be talking to a lawyer about filing bankruptcy.

Anyway, your post is moot because you haven't applied for insurance yet. A private insurer will not want your business. You will be refered to the state.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:01 PM
 
7,910 posts, read 9,115,157 times
Reputation: 9277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagran View Post
Your insurance for your family of three costs $1300/month? $15,600/year?
That's pretty close to what I pay as well.

I think that's why some of us with this "real world" experience of buying our own insurance laugh at the possibilities suggested by some on this forum that family health care could be provided for $200 a month or that it could all be provided by taxing smokers or ring dings. These suggestions usually come from people who don't want to pay for their own insurance,instead they fly to other countries to get care, or have their insurance subsidized heavily by their employers. They are insulated from the realities of the health system costs.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Reading, PA
4,011 posts, read 4,418,501 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Hmmm,if you support a UHC system it seems you WANT to burden others with paying for YOUR medical care....that seems quite selfish of you.
Do you think that everyone isn't burdened by other's medical bills now? Where do you think Spazkat9696's boss gets the money to pay $9600/employee/year for health insurance? He charges more for his services/products. The consumer is paying for Spazkat9696's insurance just as surely as if it were a tax.

And speaking of taxes, that $72,000 he's paying to upgrade his insurance is likely paid with pretax dollars. That means it's income to him that he doesn't have to pay taxes on. But if had to buy that plan privately and not have it paid out of pretax dollars, he would only get a Sch A deduction -- about $15 reduction in taxable dollars for every $100 dollars he paid after his medical expenditures exceeded 7.5% of his income. So those paying for individual policies are supporting those who have employer plans. And then there's the fact that Spazkat9696's medical expenses seem to have exceeded the $15,600 he paid in premiums. That means his medical bills are being paid by others who have policies with the same insurer but whose bills are less than the premiums they pay. How is he not burdening others with his medical bills?
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,666 posts, read 23,982,865 times
Reputation: 14996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
I no longer believe this either. I'm very familiar with Aetna.
After all the bashing of the site I used, which is basically just a broker, I decided to check Aetna's site, and compare it to what eHealthInsurance quoted for the same policy. This is what I found.

The eHealthInsurance.com quote:



The Aetna.com quote:



Same plan; same price. Not some fly-by-night company, either - Aetna.

Full disclosure: Before it showed me the plans, the Aetna site popped up a box in which it said that it was likely that actual cost of the policy could be as much as 25-50% higher than the quoted premium, based on the various factors that have been discussed at length in this thread. As I've already stated in this thread, I know that the quoted prices are low, and I was already expecting to pay anywhere from 15% to 40% more than the quote, although I was leaning towards it probably being around 20-25%.

To anyone who questions this or wants to accuse me of photoshopping the graphics - do yourself a favor. Go to either/both of the sites and get the quotes yourself, first. My zip is 89107. For my birthday, pick a date in the first half of 1971. For my "spouse", the 2nd half of 1971. For the boys, the 2nd half of 1993 and 1995. Both the adults smoke. That should be all you need to reproduce the quotes I received.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:12 PM
 
6,292 posts, read 10,565,474 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagran View Post
Do you think that everyone isn't burdened by other's medical bills now? Where do you think Spazkat9696's boss gets the money to pay $9600/employee/year for health insurance? He charges more for his services/products. The consumer is paying for Spazkat9696's insurance just as surely as if it were a tax.

And speaking of taxes, that $72,000 he's paying to upgrade his insurance is likely paid with pretax dollars. That means it's income to him that he doesn't have to pay taxes on. But if had to buy that plan privately and not have it paid out of pretax dollars, he would only get a Sch A deduction -- about $15 reduction in taxable dollars for every $100 dollars he paid after his medical expenditures exceeded 7.5% of his income. So those paying for individual policies are supporting those who have employer plans. And then there's the fact that Spazkat9696's medical expenses seem to have exceeded the $15,600 he paid in premiums. That means his medical bills are being paid by others who have policies with the same insurer but whose bills are less than the premiums they pay. How is he not burdening others with his medical bills?

I also pay my premiums with pre-tax dollars, and yes my health care costs have exceeded the money put into the plan "for me" this year, but thats why you have insurance to protect you from the unexpected. I also have Aflac to help offset the cost of our co-payments. That's an advantage of having a group plan, and I would think people realize this when they sign up for these plans. I know I understood I may pay more more in than I get out, but I was fine with that.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,224 posts, read 4,999,150 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
After all the bashing of the site I used, which is basically just a broker, I decided to check Aetna's site, and compare it to what eHealthInsurance quoted for the same policy. This is what I found.

The eHealthInsurance.com quote:



The Aetna.com quote:



Same plan; same price. Not some fly-by-night company, either - Aetna.

Full disclosure: Before it showed me the plans, the Aetna site popped up a box in which it said that it was likely that actual cost of the policy could be as much as 25-50% higher than the quoted premium, based on the various factors that have been discussed at length in this thread. As I've already stated in this thread, I know that the quoted prices are low, and I was already expecting to pay anywhere from 15% to 40% more than the quote, although I was leaning towards it probably being around 20-25%.

To anyone who questions this or wants to accuse me of photoshopping the graphics - do yourself a favor. Go to either/both of the sites and get the quotes yourself, first. My zip is 89107. For my birthday, pick a date in the first half of 1971. For my "spouse", the 2nd half of 1971. For the boys, the 2nd half of 1993 and 1995. Both the adults smoke. That should be all you need to reproduce the quotes I received.

That just proves that you were given a 'teaser'. that's how they lore you in.. oh.. but they clearly disclosed they were loring you in with the disclosure..

yeah... I shopped those sites too.. and when it actually came down to it.. didly squat..

Then they try to sell you on a plan that isn't really a "plan"but some sort of discount network with a membership fee. If you gave you information. .be prepared for probably phone calls trying to sell you all those rinky dink "network" plans.. and tons of emails too..

it's all truly BS. Been there.. done that.. it's a bold face lie and really false advertising.

Same thing if you go to those sites liek Cheopotickets.com (or something like that) where they quote a really cheap "fair" and you click book and the next screen says "sorry that fair is no longer available..LOL. " uh huh. yeah.. okay.. LOL
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:14 PM
 
6,734 posts, read 9,325,964 times
Reputation: 1857
I don't think anyone is denying the quote. We know you will be paying much much more than that. Those prices are just to "get you in the door"....to get you to apply. Like I said, unless you're part of a group. Smokers are not welcome at private insurers.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,666 posts, read 23,982,865 times
Reputation: 14996
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
No, you need to get some better information as to what health care costs are.
Something's missing. Walking through the door of any doctor's office in the country isn't going to cost $1,400. My last regular doctor was on Rodeo Dr. in Beverly Hills, and her office visits were about 7% of what you're claiming. What aren't you telling us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
...that means there's no crisis in our current system that has to be addressed.
I never said it the system was perfect, nor did I say that it was even relatively ok - what I said is that it's not a crisis. That word is very, very overused. We don't need a government takeover to make it more affordable. THAT is my point, and I've said as much multiple times in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
Again, my apologies. When you post things like,

"Good little liberal cheerleader. Rah! Rah! Rah!
That's to do with golfgod, and golfgod alone. He's earned that title, and that attitude. Don't infer too much from that post.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:23 PM
 
272 posts, read 295,129 times
Reputation: 159
I pay $800 a month for catastrophic with BCBS. When it was not for profit we paid less then $400. When they decided to become for profit the state wouldn't let them raise the rates on individual policies for a few years. Since then they increased their premiums on average of $1000 a year. Opening it up to buy from other states doesn't really solve the problem. In order to pay less it would mean your coverage is less. Each state requires the insurance co. to cover certain things... the more requirements from the state the higher the cost. Less expensive ... less requirements.... not knowing what illnesses and what tests you may need how do you decide. Buying an individual policy is expensive with a lot less benefits then being so lucky to be part of a group. Plus you have less power, insurance companies don't care when one person takes their business elsewhere.
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