Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The cash for clunkers wasn't even redistribution of wealth from rich to poor, I know of several physicians who jumped in on this scam.
The cash for clunkers wasn't about rewarding people who were driving economical vehicles. I even checked and none of my vehicles qualified because even the 3/4 ton truck was too gas economical.
The cash for clunkers was a cash reward to anyone who had a gas guzzler car around. One physician, (with a specialty and big income) got rid of an extra car he had that was of course a gas guzzler, got the $4,500 from Obama and almost as much for trade-in value.
The CARS program is not intended to reward anyone. Everything is not reward/punishment.
The best thing that ever happened to China was WalMart. We changed their whole economy by shifting manufacturing to China and giving them all jobs . . . Meanwhile, our middle class lost jobs, and became even more dependent on cheap Chinese goods, sold at your local WalMart. it is a vicious cycle and we have literally BOUGHT our way into it.
This is what capitalists do. This is what the free market looks like. No one should be surprised.
The CARS program is not intended to reward anyone. Everything is not reward/punishment.
I think many people are protesting this program b/c they do feel it is punitive. Tax money is being used to underwrite it and yet only a small % of folks will benefit from it. So that looks like another entitlement program to a lot of folks. Every working person pays into the federal tax system, but every working person is not gonna benefit from this program. So for many, that seems quite punitive.
Don't shoot me for being the messenger. Just explainin' why it does seem like a punishment to many folks.
The problem is the last thirty years haven't been an exercise in conservative ideology. It has been this weird hybrid of cherry picked section of fiscal conservacy (lower taxes) mixed with deficit spending and government programs. I am arguing that the deviation from true conservative ideology got us in this mess, so the answer? Lets head into it full steam and abandon the only shred of conservative ideology we had left.
The only way these corporations can have such control of our government and do all the things the liberals whine about, is with government help. If government didn't have it's greedy hands in everything, favors back and forth from execs to politicians couldn't be possible. Expansion of government only makes it easier, and regulations just make the deals sneakier.
I don't disagree with your points - both about lost conservatism and the play between government corruption and corporate greed.
But, in the end, self-proclaimed conservatives elected these leaders to represent their ideology. The massive deficits created under Reagan, the tax hikes under Bush I, the Gingrich revolution, and all the chaos under Bush II (elected twice, as well as Congress).
So, if that's not conservatism, then perhaps you all should get together and find leaders who are actually conservative.
Broadly speaking, we have had a good 30 year run of conservative values that were in sharp contrast to the solid 20 year run of liberal values in the 60s and 70s. My only point was that, in both cases, the ideology in power got too greedy and too powerful, thus corrupting its own ideals. What we're doing now is just balancing things out again. It's not the end of America as we know it. We'll swing back again soon enough.
From an $8000 tax credit to a $4500 clunker to a multi-billion dollar bailout of banks and other oligopolies, I believe that we must all stop and ask each other and ourselves, "was it worth it?" I fear we have had the most unintentional redistribution of wealth since the 1917 Russian Revolution, but unlike what Joe the Plumber feared, the wealth went to the rich not the poor.
To my dear young Gen Y's, in 1972, I was a big fan of George McGovern, 1976, 1980 it was Jimmy Carter, and I genuinely believed as you in governmental redistribution. It took me 30 plus years to realize that the professors were teaching bunk and the Pastors were teaching truth. If you are a genuine liberal, I hope that as I did, you will start asking more questions. Or are you just a lemming being led by a Pied Piper rather than using your wonderfully gifted brain to think for yourself? Think about it, why did you put in that earring, tattoo, wear pink hair, etc. Odd how we try to be so different by being so much like others...
"That's why I joined the Army innt, to be different!"
I dont see the connection between your two paragraphs.
This is what capitalists do. This is what the free market looks like. No one should be surprised.
Perhaps no one should be surprised. In fact, I agree. No one should be surprised. But where was the PLANNING when those trade agreements were signed? Where was the FORESIGHT?
If we had not opened the door to this by passing legislation (and I use "we" very liberally here, as it were) . . . then millions of jobs would not have been lost when manufacturers discovered they could shift operations to China.
The only surprise is that our leaders would sell us all down the Yangtze with a stroke of a pen - and without blinking an eye.
Perhaps no one should be surprised. In fact, I agree. No one should be surprised. But where was the PLANNING when those trade agreements were signed? Where was the FORESIGHT?
If we had not opened the door to this by passing legislation (and I use "we" very liberally here, as it were) . . . then millions of jobs would not have been lost when manufacturers discovered they could shift operations to China.
The only surprise is that our leaders would sell us all down the Yangtze with a stroke of a pen - and without blinking an eye.
How do you stop the natural flow of capitalism? It always goes the cheapest and easiest path. Regulations and tariffs can stem the tide temporarily, but businesses ultimately need to compete globally. The days of massive manufacturing are past for the United States much like the U.S. took manufacturing from Europe.
Not much we can do. Economies evolve. Granted, foreign automakers are still building factories in the U.S., so there must be some draw.
here is where some of america's money is going:[WASHINGTON, DC] - U.S. Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) today announced that the Senate Appropriations Committee, of which he is a member, has approved funding for several international programs included in the Foreign Operations spending bill.
***
couldn't this money be better spent in america, helping american businesses? we vote for representatives to represent the united states, just as other countries vote for representatives to represent them.
well, the Great Lakes project... but these are all projects that are seed money for building goodwill, holding off disgruntlement, keeping countries our "friends" (and playing "friends" against "enemies"), and sooner or later expanding our own business interests.
As The Superpower we have to do these things. Ambitious countries that can afford to do it do it too on various levels with the same goals in mind.
"That's why I joined the Army innt, to be different!"
I dont see the connection between your two paragraphs.
The connection is the redistribution. Socialism by its very nature is auto-redistribution. Except by design it is supposed to provide more for the poor. In 2009 America, who is getting all that we are shelling out? Banks, Union Bosses (not the rank & file), aircraft manufacturers (can you say 3 private jets for Congressional Use Only?), and politicians. Ever seen a politician who went to DC never having more than a government job that paid teachers wages that wasn't a multi-millionaire when they came home?
From an $8000 tax credit to a $4500 clunker to a multi-billion dollar bailout of banks and other oligopolies, I believe that we must all stop and ask each other and ourselves, "was it worth it?" I fear we have had the most unintentional redistribution of wealth since the 1917 Russian Revolution, but unlike what Joe the Plumber feared, the wealth went to the rich not the poor.
To my dear young Gen Y's, in 1972, I was a big fan of George McGovern, 1976, 1980 it was Jimmy Carter, and I genuinely believed as you in governmental redistribution. It took me 30 plus years to realize that the professors were teaching bunk and the Pastors were teaching truth. If you are a genuine liberal, I hope that as I did, you will start asking more questions. Or are you just a lemming being led by a Pied Piper rather than using your wonderfully gifted brain to think for yourself? Think about it, why did you put in that earring, tattoo, wear pink hair, etc. Odd how we try to be so different by being so much like others...
Yeah, you mean like tripling the wealth of the top 5% by reducing wages for eight years.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
