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Old 08-07-2009, 01:47 AM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,762 posts, read 4,628,227 times
Reputation: 2060

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Let me correct you. Color is irrelevant. The fact that someone is black, red, white or teal has nothing to do with their ability to make good decisions. A person of color is no different than a person with red hair, freckles or a turned up nose. They are physical qualities that have nothing to do with judgment or intellectual capacity. A person of color being elected is about as eventful as watching the toilet flush. It was bound to happen, though I am saddened that it happened under racist support based on PC social idiocy rather than simply picking a person who was best qualified for the job.
************************************************** *******
I need no correction: I have lived in a racist area for most of my life. I have been observing how it permeates this society for several decades. It is a reality in America, and all of the supercilious posts in the world will not change that. Denying that race has not been involved in this election is not rational, nor does it make the matter moot. And there is no need to be saddened, when we were fortunate enough to elect a brilliant president
instead of being saddled with McCain and Palin...the former showed his incompetence by choosing the latter as a running mate.
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Though that is the issue with "pure democracy" and note I do not hate democratic aspects, I despise pure democracy aspects as our founders did if you happened to pick up a book once in a while and read our history. I despise the idiocy of social mobs, the "American idol populace" so easily manipulated and directed. I could easily make another account, slowly feed off the idiots here and have them speaking up and down as I chose simply by encouraging their weaknesses of social acceptance and politically correct emotional ideology. I used to do it all the time in the liberal universities I attended.
************************************************** *******
Do you mean Athenian democracy when you speak of "pure democracy?" To say that many of our founding fathers "despised" democracy is hyperbole; Adams and others had reservations but were sufficiently committed to a government "by the people" to include the ability to vote for representatives. The establishment of a federal republic was intended to halt mob rule, but they did not foresee the abuses of power and development of a "ruling class" as we are seeing today. The rest of your braggadocio is superfluous.
************************************************** *******

So simple minded they were so easily pushed into a direction by grabbing their naive sheepish tendencies and edging them as I decided. Once I had them thinking I was one of them, I could essentially prescribe death to their opposition and they were foaming at the mouth like good little idiot puppets they were.
************************************************** ******
This reads more like a Dungeons and Dragons scenario than anything else;
it's impossible to respond to delusions of grandeur, as they're not based in reality.
************************************************** *******
Please excuse me if I do not associate myself with absolute stupidity. You see, while other people in school were reading all the rave books assigned by the programing professors listed with propaganda material, I was fact checking them, cross referencing their claims.
************************************************** *******
Which would account for your having attended more than one university. It's difficult to work through a class syllabus and earn a grade when you aren't doing the assigned work.
************************************************** ********
I learned, that up is down and down is up in the leftist world. They are so consumed with their perfect arrogance of absolute divinity, that they have no clue that they are being fed big piles of excrement. People are stupid, easily manipulated and misinformed.
************************************************** *******
What a pity that you too are a mere person; you didn't learn where to put a comma, however. One is not necessary after the word "learned," nor is one necessary after the word "divinity." The final sentence is a lesson in logic: a)all people are stupid, easily manipulated and misinformed, b) you are (hopefully) a person, c) therefore you are stupid, easily manipulated and misinformed as well. How clever to illustrate it so clearly.
************************************************** *******

This is nothing new and it happens on all sides, but the left has it down to a science. I have never seen such a complete level of subservience to stupidity as I have in the far left. They are worth dirt, a plague to intellectual progress. They are the epitome of unquestioned servitude. May they fall on to their swords, and may it pain them greatly before they fade to black.
************************************************** ********

At this point you become repetitive, and clearly are not going to remember to address the thread topic. There is no identifiable thesis in this post, and your statements have gone without citations so must be considered mere opinions, with no basis in fact. It is a verbose post, yet facile and lacking any cohesion of logic. The last sentence here is an example of sentimentality, a quality that is most undesirable in contemporary prose and poetry...a tad overly dramatic.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:22 AM
 
13,055 posts, read 12,078,872 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
I need no correction: I have lived in a racist area for most of my life. I have been observing how it permeates this society for several decades. It is a reality in America, and all of the supercilious posts in the world will not change that. Denying that race has not been involved in this election is not rational, nor does it make the matter moot. And there is no need to be saddened, when we were fortunate enough to elect a brilliant president
instead of being saddled with McCain and Palin...the former showed his incompetence by choosing the latter as a running mate.


You cling to assumptions and promote partisan bickering with your mention. Where is it a race issue in this election? Or do you mean it is a race issue that elected him? Surely you realize your premise is contradictory in stating it is racist of those who criticize as to make that claim is to be ignorant of the content of any such complaint and to ignore the very fact that a simple majority elected him into such an office. I do see racism being fostered though, yet I see it as scapegoat arguments to avoid having to deal with a lacking content or character. Your position of the evils of racist nationalism making decisions, pushing agendas, and discrimination is nothing short of making a racist claim in itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
Do you mean Athenian democracy when you speak of "pure democracy?" To say that many of our founding fathers "despised" democracy is hyperbole; Adams and others had reservations but were sufficiently committed to a government "by the people" to include the ability to vote for representatives. The establishment of a federal republic was intended to halt mob rule, but they did not foresee the abuses of power and development of a "ruling class" as we are seeing today. The rest of your braggadocio is superfluous.
As in " a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person,..."(Madison, Federalist No. 10)

And they did foresee the abuses of power and development of a ruling class, and make mention of the eventual corruption as such. They were aware of such issues, yet you are suggesting otherwise for what purpose? To promote a failed ideology as superior?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
This reads more like a Dungeons and Dragons scenario than anything else;
it's impossible to respond to delusions of grandeur, as they're not based in reality.
I wouldn't know, playing games is something children do and it has been long such I wasted my time on adolescent activities. We will defer to your experience in such pointless activities.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
Which would account for your having attended more than one university. It's difficult to work through a class syllabus and earn a grade when you aren't doing the assigned work.
You are thinking with blinders on, limiting your understanding with the bias to which you cling. Why does one go to multiple universities? Its an easy answer and your assumptive response dwells in support of your bias while the other alternative makes you look foolish. I did exceptionally well in school and even had a professor reprimanded for clinging to their "belief" over that of the factual evidence and promoting revisionist process. You see, you talk the talk, but are unable to walk it. This is why liberals are easily manipulated. They believe that how they look in delivery is far more important than that which they are delivering.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
What a pity that you too are a mere person; you didn't learn where to put a comma, however. One is not necessary after the word "learned," nor is one necessary after the word "divinity." The final sentence is a lesson in logic: a)all people are stupid, easily manipulated and misinformed, b) you are (hopefully) a person, c) therefore you are stupid, easily manipulated and misinformed as well. How clever to illustrate it so clearly.
I admit I am not strict with structure in simple dialog, my education is not spent dwelling over such remedial concepts. Though I appreciate your concern and correction, though careful with the straw man unless devious is your intent. My generalization was not specific or encasing of "all" as you attempt to suggest, We need people like you correcting our writings though, not everyone can excel in more difficult concepts so you efforts are appreciated.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
At this point you become repetitive, and clearly are not going to remember to address the thread topic. There is no identifiable thesis in this post, and your statements have gone without citations so must be considered mere opinions, with no basis in fact. It is a verbose post, yet facile and lacking any cohesion of logic. The last sentence here is an example of sentimentality, a quality that is most undesirable in contemporary prose and poetry...a tad overly dramatic.
The problem with arrogance is that it allows your ignorance to foster. My responses were concerning basic human nature, the concept of mob based behavior and the consistency of such corruption and hypocrisy in people used for various causes hiding behind humanitarian claims. You provided an excellent example of one who attempts play the part of intelligence, yet is simply an actor playing a role. The fact that you did not realize this was a subjective opinionated post only goes to prove my point. The only word fitting for your pointing out the obvious is... DUH!

Stupid is as stupid does, though thank you for the humor.

Edit:

oh, and feel free to do a grammar and spell check for me. You can be my personal secretary.
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:52 AM
LML LML started this thread
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,110 posts, read 8,499,914 times
Reputation: 5171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
************************************************** ********

At this point you become repetitive, and clearly are not going to remember to address the thread topic. There is no identifiable thesis in this post, and your statements have gone without citations so must be considered mere opinions, with no basis in fact. It is a verbose post, yet facile and lacking any cohesion of logic. The last sentence here is an example of sentimentality, a quality that is most undesirable in contemporary prose and poetry...a tad overly dramatic.

I tried to rep you for this great response you have given but they insist that I must "spread the love around." But consider yourself repped.
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:58 PM
 
24,396 posts, read 14,636,576 times
Reputation: 15263
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Wrong on both counts.

We all pay taxes on things we don't support. Fact of life. Grow up.

Denying climate change as a reality is childish. There isn't a major scientific research institute in the world that denies global climate change. Unless you know more about climate change than the vast majority of the world's--that's "world's"-- scientists, your charge that climate change is merely an "unproven, weak hypothesis" is laughable. (Better shoot them an email, then, and inform them of your discovery.) The GOP industry rapists want to deny it--and have created a pretty massive campaign to discredit it--so that they can continue to destroy the planet. Terribly sad that they've manage to confuse a minority of the public.

I find it fascinating that the right wing in this country:

1) doesn't believe they should have to pay taxes for public health care, but has no problem with forcing the rest of us to pay taxes for Bush's war;

2) wants to shove their God down our throats, and at the same time whine about liberal "big government";

3) blathers on and on about love of their country--this great DEMOCRACY in which we all live, but throws an absolute fit when they lose political power and proceeds to do everything they can to destroy the opposing party;

4) thinks people who care about animals are stupid "liberals" who care more about animals than people;

In general, people who just don't give a sh*t about anybody but themselves, and mock those who do. Talk about "arrogance." And stupid arrogance, at that.

Interesting.................

A few points

1. We pay all the taxes. You guys just benefit from what we pay in. So you did not pay for Bush's war. We did. You can still write the feds an additional check if you want to.

2. You are right. I do not want to pay for YOUR healthcare. This is much for the same reason that you refuse to buy me a new Cadillac CTS V. I wish you would and feel it is unfair that I cannot get one of those without having to work and pay for it myself. Life is unfair. Here is a hint- get a job and pay for your own stuff like Americans used to do.

3. I do not feel as though religion should be forced on anyone. Decide for yourself and live free.

4. brag about democracy- sure- we used to do that when our country stood up for freedom around the world and did not let tyrants slaughter citizens trying to be free (see Iran). Further, we never used to sponge off of other citizens and lived off what we generated. Our family has been here prior to the revolution- some were rich, most were poor. However, they did not expect to have another man pay thier way and took pride in being free. Socialism is economic childish dependency, in which men feel as though they cannot support themselves and are reduced to begging from the government. It is pathetic and should be derided- not praised.

5. Animals- give me a break. They are critters, not people. No one should be cruel to a defenseless animal, but for Christ's sake, if you grew up anywhere near a rural environment you would understand that people are people and critters are critters. Elevating animals to equal rights with humans is bizzare and is a modern invention of liberal fools who do not undrerstand where thier food comes from.

Take home message- The workers and productive people of this country do not benefit from dead weight. You are simply a burden. Get to work and be a man to regain some self repsect.
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,762 posts, read 4,628,227 times
Reputation: 2060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post


You cling to assumptions and promote partisan bickering with your mention. Where is it a race issue in this election? Or do you mean it is a race issue that elected him? Surely you realize your premise is contradictory in stating it is racist of those who criticize as to make that claim is to be ignorant of the content of any such complaint and to ignore the very fact that a simple majority elected him into such an office. I do see racism being fostered though, yet I see it as scapegoat arguments to avoid having to deal with a lacking content or character. Your position of the evils of racist nationalism making decisions, pushing agendas, and discrimination is nothing short of making a racist claim in itself.
************************************************** ******************

The very fact that we had our first bi-racial candidate in our country's history inserted race into the equation. I live in a racist area, and am also familiar with posters inserting
such unfortunate beliefs into their posts and conversations. Like Dr. King and Shelby Steele, I believe that people should be judged by "the content of their character and not the color of their skin." Unfortunately, an element of our society has not yet reached that point. Institutionalized racism is a fact of life in America, and refusing to acknowledge that does nothing to ameliorate that fact. Nor does it make one a racist to give recognition to the problem.
It simply means that one recognizes that race is an issue which needs to be addressed if the country is to progress.

************************************************** **************







************************************************** **************
As in " a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person,..."(Madison, Federalist No. 10)
************************************************** **************
"A small number of citizens" is the operative phrase here: there is no way that, long before the Louisiana Purchase and O'Sullivan's Manifest Destiny, the framers of our government could have envisioned the size to which America would eventually grow. Such massive numbers of citizens simply didn't exist. They knew that the country would grow, of course, so understood that neither "pure democracy" based on Athenian principles nor a republic based on the functioning principles of the Roman Republic were workable, and wisely combined elements of both to create what we have, which is a Federal Republic. This gave an unprecedented number of people the opportunity to participate in governance via voting, but balanced that with legislators in order to prevent mob rule. Of course, you know this.
************************************************** **************
And they did foresee the abuses of power and development of a ruling class, and make mention of the eventual corruption as such. They were aware of such issues, yet you are suggesting otherwise for what purpose? To promote a failed ideology as superior?
************************************************** **************
The multinational corporations and monopolies we see today were not Madison's intent in his championing of capitalism. Again, they had no way to foresee the extent to which corruption would infiltrate our economic system; IMHO the level of corporate greed and dishonesty in America today outstrips any provisions made by the framers of our national policies and principles. The current system which allows lobbyists to sway
legislation based on their personal gain as opposed to legislation intended for the benefit of America's citizens being created was clearly not envisioned when our country achieved its freedom and developed its framework. The state of our economy and our country is illustrative of how far from the wishes of our founding fathers our country has strayed. The only "failed ideology" is the one that would choose to continue practices that are against the welfare of our citizens, allowing large campaign contributions to dictate American policy. It is the primary reason that campaign finance reform is so badly needed.
************************************************** ************************************************** ********




I wouldn't know, playing games is something children do and it has been long such I wasted my time on adolescent activities. We will defer to your experience in such pointless activities.
************************************************** ***************
I have never played Dungeons and Dragons, as my time was spent both working and
raising children. The scenario that was outlined concerns practices that have little to do with reality. To suggest that one could be the person capable of manipulating society
seems irrational and more akin to a fantasy world than the corporeal world.
************************************************** ***************





You are thinking with blinders on, limiting your understanding with the bias to which you cling. Why does one go to multiple universities? Its an easy answer and your assumptive response dwells in support of your bias while the other alternative makes you look foolish. I did exceptionally well in school and even had a professor reprimanded for clinging to their "belief" over that of the factual evidence and promoting revisionist process. You see, you talk the talk, but are unable to walk it. This is why liberals are easily manipulated. They believe that how they look in delivery is far more important than that which they are delivering.
************************************************** **************
Then we have a shared history of academic success; when I returned to college as an adult I was taught by one professor who later won a MacArthur Genius Grant, while the chairman of my thesis committee is one of America's most famous poets. I had the good fortune to meet and fraternize with more than one Pulitzer Prize winner. I also
co-authored an academic article with a conservative writer who has remained a dear friend and whose opinions of my work are valued and appreciated contributions, as are mine to her. To contend that one could excel at their course work while also acquiring counterpoints to that task strains credulity and suggests that one or the other did not receive the extent of thought needed to form fully informed opinions. The blanket statement that liberals are easily manipulated would be illustrative of that, particularly when the country is emerging from a lengthy period in which the manipulation of traditionally conservative populations has been so thoroughly and blatantly observable and successful. At this point, it is even being confirmed by some who took part in it.
************************************************** ************************************************** ***






I admit I am not strict with structure in simple dialog, my education is not spent dwelling over such remedial concepts. Though I appreciate your concern and correction, though careful with the straw man unless devious is your intent. My generalization was not specific or encasing of "all" as you attempt to suggest, We need people like you correcting our writings though, not everyone can excel in more difficult concepts so you efforts are appreciated.
************************************************** **************
It is done from force of habit, gained from years spent correcting the work of college students. Deconstructing and making suggestions are simply meant to assist the writer in forming a more cogent and less meandering focus on the subject at hand, rendering their work more easily understood and with the presentation of material in a way that makes the work more accessible to the reader.Clear communication is important in any discipline.
************************************************** *******



The problem with arrogance is that it allows your ignorance to foster. My responses were concerning basic human nature, the concept of mob based behavior and the consistency of such corruption and hypocrisy in people used for various causes hiding behind humanitarian claims. You provided an excellent example of one who attempts play the part of intelligence, yet is simply an actor playing a role. The fact that you did not realize this was a subjective opinionated post only goes to prove my point. The only word fitting for your pointing out the obvious is... DUH!
************************************************** *******

Yes, the truth of the initial sentence is evident. Mine was a simple given example of faulty logic; if a equals b and b equals c, then a equals c. I have no illusions about my intelligence, as decades of work and study have taught me that one has never learned enough to halt that process, and that no matter how intelligent one might be, there is always someone who is far more intelligent; I have no need to prove anything to anyone. I make no pretense of being omniscient nor omnipotent, which seemed perilously close to the surface in the post which I addressed. The inability to recognize that one's own writing consisted of subjective opinions after having been shown exactly that appears to be a recurrent problem. You are clearly intelligent and well-educated, yet your writing exhibits a lack of self-introspection. That quality is necessary for intellectual growth; simple memorization is insufficient to serve as a basis of support for one's contentions. It is of great importance that one gather information from many sources, be able to correlate what has been learned, consider one's own experiences and combine them creatively to make an informed judgment that marks true intellectuals. Having been exposed to several, I certainly do not consider myself an intellectual, nor do I attempt to portray myself as one when I'm posting.
************************************************** *******


Stupid is as stupid does, though thank you for the humor.

Edit:

oh, and feel free to do a grammar and spell check for me. You can be my personal secretary.
************************************************** *******
My critique of the post's conclusion stands as written. There will be no second, as I prefer to engage in discussions with posters who are, perhaps
through personal experience, more broadly versed in terms of the shared experience of humanity. Undoubtedly a used grammar text and spellcheck will be of far more benefit to you than I. The exchange was interesting.

Last edited by Evenstar51; 08-07-2009 at 04:16 PM..
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Old 08-07-2009, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,712 posts, read 12,397,854 times
Reputation: 4165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
4. brag about democracy- sure- we used to do that when our country stood up for freedom around the world and did not let tyrants slaughter citizens trying to be free (see Iran).
When was that? I must've missed it.
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Old 08-08-2009, 07:25 AM
 
20,194 posts, read 21,803,497 times
Reputation: 9256
Quote:
"I have helped pay for streets I will never drive down. I have helped pay for schools I will never attend. I have helped pay for wars that I very much oppose. I have helped pay for trains and buses on which I will never ride. I have helped pay aid to foreign countries I will never see. I have helped bail out banks, insurance companies, and investment firms from which I have never received one cent of income. I have paid for many, many things in my 50 years of working and paying taxes from which I have received no benefit. It is called being part of a larger community.....a citizen. The point of people banding together and forming a country...a government...is for the mutual support, mutual security, mutual benefit. What doesn't benefit you today may benefit your neighbor and what doesn't benefit them today may benefit you. Greed and selfishness is destroying this country. Not socialism."
My taxes have helped the welfare queens that will never work, help pay defense attorneys for illegal immigrants who will steal someone else's job, help pay for incentives for Big Business that will craft new laws to take away more money from me, help pay for pork barrel projects that lines the politicians pocket with money, help pay for aid to countries who will once again threaten the world with nuclear weapons, help pay for medicare and medicaid that will never be fixed, help pay for social security that I will never see, help pay for schools that continue to be broken and never fixed, help pay for banks, insurance, etc companies that will have employees making millions of dollars a year, help socialize the country so that entertainment "kings and queens" will forever be wealthy and egomaniacs, help pay for programs that tries to convert everyone into socialists... if that's the community you want, that's the community I don't want to be a part of... a community who thinks the problems of everyone can be solved by stealing from someone else... and then call me selfish because I don't want to be a part of it... I fix things not throw money at it like a socialist who steals it from someone else....
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Old 08-08-2009, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,230 posts, read 15,352,011 times
Reputation: 5919
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicWings View Post
A warning for all:
First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
Good Grief! No one is coming for you or anyone else. Living in a world filled with paranoid thoughts of the government coming for you must be tough, open your eyes and see the truth, your choice to do so or not.
Casper
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Old 08-08-2009, 07:44 AM
 
19,215 posts, read 13,976,918 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicWings View Post
A warning for all:
First They Came for the Jews

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
We're from the Government, and we're here to help.
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Old 08-08-2009, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,230 posts, read 15,352,011 times
Reputation: 5919
Quote:
Originally Posted by LML View Post
To those of you who believe that dividing the U.S. will solve all your problems I offer the following for you to think about.

You seem to believe that if you live in a country where there are only those who look like you, worship like you, and have your political beliefs then you will have found a perfect way to live. Think again. How long will it take before you find differences...some small....some large...and then you will once again be unhappy and looking for further division. Examples;

Ireland. Here is a country that was made up entirely of white Christians who all spoke the same language. What could possibly go wrong? Well, then the Protestant Christians decided that the Catholic Christians weren't "good enough" and the Catholic Christians decided that the Protestant Christians were infringing on their rights. Results....decades of fighting and killing and destruction.

Iraq...and much of the Middle East - Here are countries that are made up almost exclusively of Semite people who are Muslim. Surely they could live in peace. But then the Sunnah and Shiite decide that they are the REAL Muslims and all others are wrong and should die for the error of their ways.

Many countries in Africa, where people look alike in the color of their skin, have destroyed hundreds of thousands of their countrymen because their families belonged to different groups.

I could go on and on throughout history and into the modern day. But one thing is clear....people will always find excuses to hate. And the one thing that the "American Experiment" taught was that unless everyone was free then no one's freedom was safe. If you do not protect the freedom of others to differ from you then your freedom to differ from them is not safe either.

No one says you must change your beliefs. You are free to believe as you like. But others are free to believe as they like too. And that very freedom is all that protects you....and them.
Your attempt to use logic with those that wish to tear this nation apart is commendable, too bad they will not listen. I feel sooner or later one or two of the nutcases are going to try and carry out their fantasy, the cold hard reality will set in as they are being tried as Traitors or worse yet as they are dieing. Sad that some of our fellow Americans cannot stand the fact that they lost a couple of elections under our system and now want to throw the system in the trash. Funny thing is they consider themselves Patriots, when in reality they are the furthest thing from being one. I blame much of thier thinking on rightwing blog sites and takshow hosts, the weak of mind believe anything they are told without a second thought or question. Maybe as the economy improves some will come back to earth, unfortunately, as you can see by some of the replies here, some refuse to listen to any rational arguement that disagrees with their mindset. Oh well, stuck with it.
Casper
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