U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-10-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
162 posts, read 250,681 times
Reputation: 285

Advertisements

Let me just say one more quick thing, which I know has been said on here before but continues to amaze me. It is incredible that when a view point is different or opposite another, as the views of most of the posters on here are from Normanders, that we are stupid. Again, Normander, just because you think something is right doesnt make it so, we can go tit for tat all day long.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-10-2009, 08:04 PM
 
13,055 posts, read 11,977,403 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by CUPlanner View Post
Again, reinforcing what I said. Put into the context of this comment and your previous dozen, you seem to make the assumption that by "educating myself" I'll somehow come to see that your point of view is correct and that everything I have read, and I have read plenty in books, not just on webpages, which can be made to say whatever they like at a moments notice, will be proven wrong. You admitted yourself that there is lots of crap on the internet, so just because you like to believe that one pile of crap is more correct than another doesnt make it correct. Your view on what is right and wrong is not the be all and end all. That was the point I was trying to make and you didnt prove it wrong you just agrued that if I read what you deem to be correct, I will somehow be enlightened.
Sorry, I do not hold to the liberal position of "facts are merely a different point of view". When I say educate yourself, I am not asking you to pick up something and tell me why it is your favorite color, or why something tastes good to you. I am asking you to educate yourself on the facts of the issue, not simply libelous revision used to puppet the moronic around. There is a factual history to this nation and you can play games with twisting words and reforming purpose, but that is not educating ones self on the issues, it is making it as you want to see it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CUPlanner View Post
I have received a liberal education because I dont believe those wars were about freedom?! Give me a break. Pull your head out of your own ass and out of Uncle Sam's and then we can talk. And if you have some good points then and some legitimate information to counter the number of things I have read, not just from liberals but from established historians and economists, then maybe I will consider your point of view.
What you got was an expensive bill for spending a lot of time with people pushing their take on historical facts to form a political position of their liking. It is the liberal way, it is their motto. If they do not like a fact, they twist it and play interpretation games with it until they can produce something they do like. This is evident with your summaries on the reasons for our wars. It is ignorant, programmed and typical of a "liberal education". You didn't "learn how to learn" and then apply that to inform yourself, you learned how to regurgitate a view like a good little puppet.

Promote becomes provide, up is down, left is right and stupid becomes smart. Its the liberal way!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2009, 08:06 PM
 
13,055 posts, read 11,977,403 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin13 View Post
Amazingly strong anti-social "quality" to your post.
What you mean is I do not toe the line, suck up to social acceptance of a view or placate to idiots with their cheer leading emotional banter? Yes, I believe you are correct.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2009, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
162 posts, read 250,681 times
Reputation: 285
Quote:
Sorry, I do not hold to the liberal position of "facts are merely a different point of view". When I say educate yourself, I am not asking you to pick up something and tell me why it is your favorite color, or why something tastes good to you. I am asking you to educate yourself on the facts of the issue, not simply libelous revision used to puppet the moronic around. There is a factual history to this nation and you can play games with twisting words and reforming purpose, but that is not educating ones self on the issues, it is making it as you want to see it.
I never said I believe that "facts are just a different point of view." I said that I think you believe that. From your postings, you think that your interpretation of the "facts" (what you believe are are the facts, or the limited amount of things you have looked at that you think constitute the entire reality of a situation) of events, writings, speeches, etc. is the correct one, and belittle people you think got a "liberal" version of it, which is apparently any version other than your own, becuase you are THE definition of conservatism I guess.

You talk to me like I have never looked at the same original documents and accounts you have, and the accounts of the context in which they were created, and come to my own belief as to what is the truth. You say not take your word for it, I dont need to. But if you are so well informed, please, enlighten me to your truths about our wars, our founding fathers, etc., so I dont have to rely on my "liberal" education any longer.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2009, 08:12 AM
 
23,864 posts, read 14,275,126 times
Reputation: 14606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Isn't it time to put this particular talking point to bed? I mean, ten million (and counting) formerly working Americans are now unemployed. Many of them conservatives. Where do you get off imagining that all liberals are welfare queens? Do you, in fact, know how difficult it is to qualify for welfare? Do you know how difficult it is for a person of color who wants to work to get employed? How many people of color are employed where you work? Trust me, it isn't because they don't want to work there it is because your Human Resources Dept. always finds a convenient excuse for not pulling the trigger on a hiring decision.

Civilized nations always create some kind of welfare state but in most cases it isn't neccessary. In the U.S. it is neccessary and you'll soon see why. When all that unemployment money runs out and people actually start starving.. ... white people. Conservatives. People like you. Idiots. You won't get angry at the real culprits. No, you'll just get even angrier at the Hispanics (who work by the way, that's why soon you won't be able to) or the African Americans who number less than 33 million and acount for a piddling fraction of the total welfare roll.

Since when do Americans get upset at being asked to pay taxes?? Individual wingnuts sure. But as a class?? Tea parties? Blogs? Sheist, what are you all thinking? Because a black man suggests some creative fixes for an economy he did not destroy you all are fit to be tied and want to break apart the union. Remember the last time that happened? Lincoln was in the White House and it appeared the fight was over slavery. It wasn't. It was over money. The south made money off the backs of black people and it was morally reprehensible to a significant majority of white people in the north. The south said, "well, this is how we need to do things and we aren't going to let you all slow our roll so we'll just split the country thank you. Lincoln couldn't have that as his legacy so 250,000 or so men died for Lincoln's ego. I'm sorry, Lincoln is remembered as a hero. In any case, I doubt Obama has any less sense of ego than Lincoln and he doesn't deserve to have America come apart on his watch. He doesn't deserve to have his every decision questioned, derided or flat out disobeyed. Some of the things that have been taking place in the American political theatre have never taken place before and it's all because Obama is a black man.

Just get real and think about what you are so angry about. Is any of it new? Did you want to secede during Carter? Clinton? Democrats both. White men though. I'm done on this particular argument after this but I want you to know who you are really angry at: the corporations. They are screwing you over (no lube) and you're mad as hell (I don't blame you) but you are too Republican to say anything bad about free enterprise or Capitalism. So sorry for you on that.

H

Obama's race has nothing to do with it at all. It is his political views and actions. He is far more extreme than Carter or Clinton. Citizens will not stand by and accept his radical policies, simply for fear of being called "racist" by his supporters (libs think everyone who disagrees with Obama is a "racist" anyway).

People have complained about taxes before. Do you recall the American Revolution? Objecting about unfair tax burdens is the basis of this country. Further, people actually working and pulling thier own weight is the basis for this country.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2009, 09:10 AM
 
13,055 posts, read 11,977,403 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by CUPlanner View Post
I never said I believe that "facts are just a different point of view." I said that I think you believe that. From your postings, you think that your interpretation of the "facts" (what you believe are are the facts, or the limited amount of things you have looked at that you think constitute the entire reality of a situation) of events, writings, speeches, etc. is the correct one, and belittle people you think got a "liberal" version of it, which is apparently any version other than your own, becuase you are THE definition of conservatism I guess.

You talk to me like I have never looked at the same original documents and accounts you have, and the accounts of the context in which they were created, and come to my own belief as to what is the truth. You say not take your word for it, I dont need to. But if you are so well informed, please, enlighten me to your truths about our wars, our founding fathers, etc., so I dont have to rely on my "liberal" education any longer.
You are the one who summarized our wars in manner to which is befitting of a puppet liberal. Iraq for oil? Only an idiot falls for that stupid claim, only an ignorant fool with blinders can seriously attend to that belief. Each one of your summaries as such are nothing more than talking point blather filled with half-truths, out of context claims, and straight out devious positions.

By the way, I fail to see any sources to your summaries? You made the claim, you back it up. It is not up to me to chase imaginary claims to prove you wrong. You claimed the position, put up or shut up.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
162 posts, read 250,681 times
Reputation: 285
Put or shut up I will, but I would like to see what you think was the reason. When I get home later tonight and I have more time, I will get to citing my sources. For now, please, please, please tell me what it was all about. I want to hear. All Ive read so far are comments telling me im an idiot and a fool, but I havent heard any of your information on this topic
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2009, 10:25 AM
 
13,055 posts, read 11,977,403 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by CUPlanner View Post
Put or shut up I will, but I would like to see what you think was the reason. When I get home later tonight and I have more time, I will get to citing my sources. For now, please, please, please tell me what it was all about. I want to hear. All Ive read so far are comments telling me im an idiot and a fool, but I havent heard any of your information on this topic

Provide your sources and we will discuss what you claim rather than complicating the issue with another line of discussion (One step at a time). I would appreciate citing according to the rules of "best evidence" (when referring to a quantifiable fact, the original source listed and when referring to testimony, only first hand source listing). I will not accept anything less unless it also can reasonably shown to be evident of factual historical record and validated through multiple sources of account.

In short, don't cite me propaganda sites (Appeal to authority claims without citation are not acceptable) using vague claims of sources to references that can not be validated or confirmed. News clippings may be acceptable but are circumstantial and can not stand alone without proper supportive corroboration, so keep that in mind if you choose an editorial lacking proper sourcing practice.

I won't nitpick if the evidence is provided honestly and is "reasonable", though if it weights itself on assumptions and ambiguity, I will ask you to provide a proper support to such claims.

To use and old lawyers adage:

Quote:
“When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When neither is on your side, change the subject and question the motives of the opposition.”
If you do the latter, then it will be apparent you are not interested in the facts, but in a biased position and you will only prove my point concerning liberal policy and action.

So are you truly ready to discuss this or should I save us the trouble and place you on ignore?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Syracuse, NY
162 posts, read 250,681 times
Reputation: 285
Its fairly easy to stage an argument, Normander, when your entire defense is just going to be shooting down the other side's information. The way it looks right now, all that will come of this is you saying that my sources are bogus, while not prividing any compelling evidence of your own to the contrary. That is why I wanted you to give me some of your best. Right now, this is all about me, I want to hear a little more from you
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-11-2009, 11:03 AM
 
13,055 posts, read 11,977,403 times
Reputation: 2612
Quote:
Originally Posted by CUPlanner View Post
Its fairly easy to stage an argument, Normander, when your entire defense is just going to be shooting down the other side's information. The way it looks right now, all that will come of this is you saying that my sources are bogus, while not prividing any compelling evidence of your own to the contrary. That is why I wanted you to give me some of your best. Right now, this is all about me, I want to hear a little more from you
/sigh

No, I was saving you time of posting one fallacious source after the other and then claiming yourself correct. The method of citation I listed is for BOTH of our protections in this discussion so we do not end up playing stupid partisan tit for tat using sources of assumptions and generalizations.

Look at the fallacy of your position already. You have already proven the adage correct. You are starting to "question the motives of the opposition" rather than continue on a formal path of discussion by providing proper evedentual support.

This isn't a new position for me. I have stood before the academic council of my university and contested the facts claimed of my professor. They sided with me because I held to a proper form of evidential support while my professor wallowed in assumptions, generalizations, out of context claims and circle sourced content. I fear nothing you have to offer because I have experienced this in a formal setting.

I have attempted to have "just the facts" discussions in other threads before on different subjects, posting directly to the research, the core of the structure to which the claims are derived. I have gone over the details far deeper than that of simple headlines and assumptive generalizations only to be rewarded with deafening silence or a wave of the hand by those I discussed with.


You made a claim, I called you on sources and then your wanted to derail the discussion so you could be on the offensive of any points I made all the while we would be flowing away from you having to defend your point. Your continued attempts at trying to steer this into more partisan bickering only supports the premise that you are without merit, without support and merely a puppet for your masters.

So rather than wasting my time playing your game, I will place you on ignore with liberals in the past who also applied unethical forms to their discussions. This way, you can go on playing the ignorant part of social acceptance with your crowd and I don't have to degrade my thinking patterns in order to decipher fallacious arguments.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top