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Old 08-09-2009, 12:50 AM
 
Location: USA
526 posts, read 1,755,055 times
Reputation: 319

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Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
Nothing in that post is dishonest.
Since you called me lazy, I did some more research about Politifact.com only to find out that it is an offshoot of the "Saint Petersburg Times", an extreme left wing west coast Florida newspaper. The dishonesty is that you should source unbiased entities.

Secondly, I have never disputed that Obama has fulfilled 34 campaign promises, only that he broke 10. Politifact states that he only broke 7 but I sourced 10. The ten that I sourced are not even the same as the 7 sourced by Politifact so that would be a total of 17. Couple this with the fact that they have no other meter for any other President and you can conclude that they may not be that accurate. Politifact has also supported ACORN. I leave it up to the readers of your posts to decide whether or not anything you say is credible at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
If you think so, go find something that contradicts what I wrote.
You are so far, wrong consistently - and lazy.
What am I incorrect about. I have stated the 10 campaign promises that Obama had broke (which happen to be more important than the 34 he fulfilled by the way). But I guess in your view numbers are more important.

Secondly, there is no website that I could find that even mentions all of the campaign promises of past Presidents. I could only find that Reagan fulfilled most which tells me little of the quality or quantity of his campaign promises. Also, I am not the one that is claiming that Obama has fulfilled the most campaign promises... you are, remember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
If its easy, find something. I'm certain he did not manage to keep 34 promises but please prove me wrong.
You are certain and yet you are the one that wants to be proven wrong? How sure are you? Pretty sure? I sure as hell could care less if Obama fulfilled 100 campaign promises if they do not address the major issues or if they hurt our country more than help it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
My assertion, from doing limited research, is that Obama likely made more promises than any candidate in history. And so that 83% carries more weight than the one promise Bush1 made and failed to keep for a tidy 0%.
You are accusing me of being lazy after you yourself have stated that you have been doing limited research? Scoff.
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:10 AM
 
2,661 posts, read 2,902,531 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jja100 View Post
Since you called me lazy, I did some more research about Politifact.com only to find out that it is an offshoot of the "Saint Petersburg Times", an extreme left wing west coast Florida newspaper. The dishonesty is that you should source unbiased entities.
Links please.
Why bother looking up things without putting what you've found here so everyone can look at it?

Quote:
A study by Media Matters for America showed that the St. Petersburg Times was one of only four newspapers in Florida that featured more progressive opinions than conservative, with 43 percent of columnists considered progressive and 29 percent considered conservative.
St. Petersburg Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Is that what you refer to?

Quote:
Secondly, I have never disputed that Obama has fulfilled 34 campaign promises, only that he broke 10. Politifact states that he only broke 7 but I sourced 10. The ten that I sourced are not even the same as the 7 sourced by Politifact so that would be a total of 17. Couple this with the fact that they have no other meter for any other President and you can conclude that they may not be that accurate. Politifact has also supported ACORN. I leave it up to the readers of your posts to decide whether or not anything you say is credible at all.
Your purpose was to suggest that he's broken a lot of campaign promises.
That isn't true.
Your list is pathetic, I'll take the nonpartisan list.
And that is what this entire exercise has been about.
Getting you to realize that you have no evidence to make such a suggestion.

Quote:
What am I incorrect about. I have stated the 10 campaign promises that Obama had broke (which happen to be more important than the 34 he fulfilled by the way). But I guess in your view numbers are more important.
Read the thread, you'll find your list has a lot of holes.

Quote:
Secondly, there is no website that I could find that even mentions all of the campaign promises of past Presidents. I could only find that Reagan fulfilled most which tells me little of the quality or quantity of his campaign promises. Also, I am not the one that is claiming that Obama has fulfilled the most campaign promises... you are, remember?
Link, lol?
All you've provided is another unsupported claim.
If you truly did some research, link it.

Quote:
You are certain and yet you are the one that wants to be proven wrong? How sure are you? Pretty sure? I sure as hell could care less if Obama fulfilled 100 campaign promises if they do not address the major issues or if they hurt our country more than help it.
Yeah, prove me wrong.
But with links, not just by saying "I'm right!"

Quote:
You are accusing me of being lazy after you yourself have stated that you have been doing limited research? Scoff.
Yes, you are lazy because you make claims without knowledge, and then until now (you claim) you refused to do any research to increase your knowledge.

I admitted limited research because I didn't spend more than 30 minutes looking, and I don't like to lie/misrepresent.
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:16 AM
 
Location: USA
526 posts, read 1,755,055 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by jja100 View Post
A campaign has no reflection on the policies that a Presidential candidate will actually be able to do once in office. Just look at all of Obama's broken promises.

Broken promise No. 1: 'Sunlight Before Signing'

Broken promise No. 2: Capital gains tax elimination

Broken promise No. 3: New American jobs tax credit

Broken promise No. 4: Hiatus on 401(k) penalties

Broken promise No. 5: 'No jobs for lobbyists'

Broken promise No. 6: Earmark reform

Broken promise No. 7: Bring troops home in 16 months

Broken promise No. 8: Sign 'Freedom of Choice Act'

Broken promise No. 9: $4,000 college credit

Broken promise No. 10: Transparency

The fact of the matter is that neither you nor I would ever be able to tell if the McCain/Palin administration would have done better because they were not elected. It is academic dishonesty to assume that the alternate administration would have been worse when they never had the opportunity in the first place.
Here is my source BTW:

YouTube - Barack Obama "Public Will Have 5 Days To Look At Every Bill That Lands On My Desk"


YouTube - Obama's Promise to withdraw troops in Iraq by 2009
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
1. Not started a war.
2. Ended federal prosecution of medical marijuana in pro-MM states.

If that's all he does for 4 years, it'll be a hell of a lot better a record than McCain/Palin would've accomplished.
He also didn't sell Manhattan back to the original owners. So what?
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
Doesn't take a soothsayer to determine that a complete spending freeze would be disaster.
That was McCain's big economic plan.

A spending freeze would be a complete disaster because?
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:21 AM
 
2,661 posts, read 2,902,531 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
A spending freeze would be a complete disaster because?
"How about a spending freeze on everything but defense, veteran affairs and entitlement programs."

You like high unemployment?
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:29 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,844,675 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELOrocks17 View Post
Can you? Here is your chance...go ahead, tell us all the wonderfull things Obama has done while in office.
Well if the RW nutjobs think he hasn't done anything right then you know we're on the right track. As long as mike "wiener" savage is complaining then our country is better off.
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:31 AM
 
Location: New York, New York
4,906 posts, read 6,844,675 times
Reputation: 1033
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
A spending freeze would be a complete disaster because?
Perhaps an economics class is a better place for you to ask this question.
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:55 AM
 
Location: USA
526 posts, read 1,755,055 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
Links please.
Why bother looking up things without putting what you've found here so everyone can look at it?

I thought you did thorough research? It is on the front page of Politifact.com.

PolitiFact | Sorting out the truth in politics

They themselves stated they are a part of the St. Petersburg newspaper

Here I will source everything again:

Broken promise No. 1: 'Sunlight Before Signing'

When Obama campaigned for the Democratic presidential nomination in Manchester, N.H., on June 22, 2007, he announced his "Sunlight Before Signing" promise.



"When there is a bill that ends up on my desk as the president, you the public will have five days to look online and find out what's in it before I sign it," he said.


He repeated that promise on his campaign website:



"Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days."


However, Obama signed his first bill, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Restoration Act, on Jan. 20 – only two days after its passage.
He signed a second bill expanding the State Children's Health Insurance Program just three hours after Congress passed it.
Again, on Feb. 17, Obama signed his 1,000-page $787 billion stimulus aimed at jolting the declining U.S. economy. He did so only one day after it passed through Congress – without allowing for five days of public comment.



Broken promise No. 2: Capital gains tax elimination



According to his comprehensive tax plan released during his campaign, Obama promised to "eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses."
Just weeks prior to the election, Obama advisers Austan Goolsbee and Jason Furman told the Wall Street Journal that Obama planned tax cuts that included "the elimination of capital gains taxes for small businesses and start-ups."
People who invest in small businesses have only been allowed to exclude 50 percent of that gain from capital gains taxes. While Obama's $787 billion economic-stimulus package reduces that tax liability – raising the exclusion to 75 percent – it does not eliminate it.




Broken promise No. 3: New American jobs tax credit

During his transition, Obama's promised to provide a $3,000 refundable tax credit to existing businesses for every additional full-time U.S. employee hired in 2009 and 2010.
"If a company that currently has 10 U.S. employees increases its domestic full time to 20 employees, this company would get a $30,000 tax credit – enough to offset the entire added costs to the company for the first $50,000 of income for the new employees," the transition website stated. "The tax credit will benefit all companies creating net new jobs, even those struggling to make a profit."


Obama's promise was never included in the stimulus package.




Broken promise No. 4: Hiatus on 401(k) penalties
Many unemployed and financially strapped Americans have considered early withdrawals on 401(k) and retirement accounts to survive the current recession. However, the IRS imposes strict penalties of up to 10 percent plus federal, state and local income taxes on such advances.
Workers who have taken $10,000 in early withdrawals from retirement plans have lost as much as 40 percent to taxes and penalties, depending upon tax brackets.
In October 2008, Obama released his "Rescue Plan for the Middle-Class" in which he promised to allow financially Americans to withdraw up to $10,000 from their 401(k) accounts and retirement savings without having to pay penalties. They would only pay income taxes on the amount.
"Since so many Americans will be struggling to pay the bills over the next year, I propose that we allow every family to withdraw up to 15% from their IRA or 401(k) – up to a maximum of $10,000 – without any fine or penalty throughout 2009," Obama said. "This will help families get through this crisis without being forced to make painful choices like selling their homes or not sending their kids to college."


However, Obama's promise was never included in his recent stimulus package.

Broken promise No. 5: 'No jobs for lobbyists'




Obama promised America he would loosen the grip of lobbyists on Washington.
In his Nov. 10, 2007, speech in Des Moines, Iowa, Obama declared:
I am in this race to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over. I have done more than any other candidate in this race to take on lobbyists — and won. They have not funded my campaign, they will not run my White House, and they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I am president.
During his campaign, Obama also said, "I have done more to take on lobbyists than any other candidate in this race. I don't take a dime of their money, and when I am president, they won't in my White House."


However, USA Today reported Obama's campaign fundraising team included 38 members of law firms that were paid $138 million in 2007 to lobby the federal government.



"Those lawyers, including 10 former federal lobbyists, have pledged to raise at least $3.5 million" for Obama's campaign, the report states. "Employees of their firms have given Obama's campaign $2.26 million."
It wasn't long before he allowed at least two dozen exceptions and broke his promise.
Obama's own ethic rules barred officials of his administration from lobbying their former colleagues "for as long as I am president." He also said former lobbyists would be prohibited from working for agencies they had lobbied within the past two years. President Obama later waived his rules for at least two of his nominees – William J. Lynn III, undersecretary at the Department of Defense and recent lobbyist for Raytheon, and William Corr, deputy secretary for the Department of Health and Human Services and anti-tobacco lobbyist for the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids.



Broken promise No. 6: Earmark reform

As WND reports, at the first presidential debate in Oxford, Miss., Obama declared, "[W]e need earmark reform. And when I'm president, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely."
However, in February, Obama passed his $787 billion stimulus aimed at jolting the declining U.S. economy. Before a joint session of Congress, Obama declared: "Now, I'm proud that we passed a recovery plan free of earmarks."
Some chuckled in amusement when he claimed the bill contained no pork.
"There was just a roar of laughter – because there were earmarks," Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., told CNN.
U.S. News & World Report found at least eight earmarks in his stimulus bill.
Obama also signed a $410 billion omnibus bill for 2009. More than 9,000 earmarks in the spending bill (http://www.taxpayer.net/search_by_category.php?action=view&proj_id=2049&ca tegory=Earmarks&type=Project# - broken link) total an estimated $7.7 billion.
Even though the Democrat-controlled Congress crafted the bill after Obama's election, the administration claims the added pork is just "unfinished business" from last year.
The White House website states, "Obama and Biden will slash earmarks to no greater than 1994 levels and ensure all spending decisions are open to the public." However, watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense reports that the omnibus pork alone already totals $7.7 billion – just less than the total of $7.8 billion in earmarks in 1994 – and the figure does not include $6.6 billion in earmarks contained in three previous spending bills Congress passed amid the crisis last year.
During his three years in the Senate, Obama requested more than $860 million in earmarks (http://www.taxpayer.net/resources.php?category=&type=Project&proj_id=1321& action=Headlines%20By%20TCS - broken link), according to the group. White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel has 16 earmarks – worth approximately $8.5 million – in the bill.
Broken promise No. 7: Bring troops home in 16 months


On his campaign website, Obama promised he would "remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months."
His commitment to bring combat troops home by May 20, 2010, and end the war gave him an edge among Democrats over candidate Hillary Clinton.
However, on Feb. 27, Obama declared, "Let me say this as plainly as I can: By Aug. 31, 2010, our combat mission in Iraq will end."
If Obama adheres to his plan, combat troops will return home months later than originally promised. The New York Times reports, Obama will withdraw only two of the 14 brigades before December.
As part of a "new era of American leadership," he also said he would leave behind a residual force of 35,000 to 50,000 troops and remove all U.S. soldiers from Iraq by Dec. 31, 2011 – the same deadline the Bush administration negotiated with the Iraqi government last year in its Status of Forces Agreement.
Additionally, some combat units would remain in Iraq beyond Obama's declared August 2010 withdrawal. Rather than returning home, they would simply face reassignment as "advisory training brigades."
Even as combat troops are brought home, Pentagon officials have said fresh units will continue deploying to Iraq.



Broken promise No. 8: Sign 'Freedom of Choice Act'


On July 17, 2007, Obama told the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, "The first thing I'd do as president is, is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing that I'd do."
Obama expressed his support for the sweeping plan that would repeal all national and state regulations of abortion passed over the last 35 years.
His agenda regarding "reproductive choice" is posted on the White House website. It states, Obama "has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving women's rights under Roe v. Wade a priority in his Administration."
Obama chose radical pro-abortion Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius to serve as the Health secretary, moved to void job protections for health workers who oppose abortion and repealed a ban on U.S. taxpayer funding of foreign abortions. While many pro-life advocates consider it a blessing that Obama has no fulfilled his promise to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, he has made no mention of the legislation since he took office.



Broken promise No. 9: $4,000 college credit

Obama pledged to make college "affordable for all Americans" when he announced his American Opportunity Tax Credit.


His campaign promise read: "This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service."
While the American Opportunity Tax Credit was included in the recent stimulus bill, it offers a credit of only $2,500 for up to two years and requires no commitment to community service.



Broken promise No. 10: Transparency

On the White House website, the Obama administration claims it will be "the most open and transparent in history.
The administration released a memo on Jan. 21, stating:
My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government. Government should be transparent. Transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their Government is doing. …
However, Congress and the administration hurried the $787 billion, 1,027-page American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 to a vote after allowing lawmakers just a few hours to read the bill. It was also available online in a form that could not be keyword searched.
While former administrations immediately posted transcripts of presidential speeches – including some remarks before delivery – the White House website often waits until days or even weeks after an event to release transcripts.
Also, some say recent reports of tax evasion by Obama nominees is evidence that the administration is not as transparent as promised.



Just before Obama named Timothy Geithner to be his treasury secretary, the president of the New York Federal Reserve Bank quietly paid $26,000 in and interest due since 2001 and 2002.
Obama characterized the eight-year tax evasion as "an innocent mistake."
But as many as five of his picks defaulted on taxes, including former nominee for health and human services secretary, Tom Daschle; former nominee for chief performance officer, Nancy Killefer; U.S. representative nominee Ron Kirk and Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis.
Furthermore, while the president posted his own weekly "fireside chats" on YouTube during the campaign, many journalists report that he has a history of being less than welcoming to the Fourth Estate.
Columbia Journalism Review noted Obama's treatment of the press: "During the campaign, reporters' access to Obama was severely limited. On-the-record conversations with the candidate were even more so. Indeed, Obama's overall treatment of the press – not just in his general rejection of the day-to-day news cycle, but also in his tendency to shun his national traveling press corps ... created the impression that its members were, to him, a buzzing nuisance. Instead of the voice of the people."
WND's correspondent at the White House, Les Kinsolving, raised the issue in February that most of the reporters recognized for questions in the briefing room were among the same handful over and over again. Some of them had been given four or even five opportunities for questions while other reporters were not recognized at all.
Kinsolving, a senior journalist in the White House press corps, was not allowed to voice his questions on issues on which millions of WND readers have expressed an interest. There were also complaints about the time of the November election that not only did Obama rely on a few key reporters for questions, those reporters were chosen ahead of time.



There you go... everything is sourced. Will you stop trolling now?
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Old 08-09-2009, 01:58 AM
 
2,661 posts, read 2,902,531 times
Reputation: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by jja100 View Post
I thought you did thorough research? It is on the front page of Politifact.com.
Re-read the previous post.

I asked for links regarding St. Petersburg Times (what makes you think its an extreme left paper).

And I asked for your proof that Reagan kept more campaign promises.
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