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Next question - How would we go about rounding them up? (Like would we use like some sort of mouse trap apparatus? You know like maybe put a bean (maybe bread) or something on a chain and hope an illegal walks by and picks it up then catch them in the trap? (can you sense the sarcasm?)
Once this question is answered my next question is who will pay for the transporting and catching of illegals? Is this going to be funded by lobbying groups or government tax payers?
If the cost of catching and transporting them back to their home country exceeds the cost of making the legalized citizens why are we doing the above question?
Why don't you do your OWN searching and learning rather than demanding that OTHERS provide you with information - Do you know how to search on the internet?
Do a search for "Illegal Immigration" - do it yourself
Why don't you do your OWN searching and learning rather than demanding that OTHERS provide you with information - Do you know how to search on the internet?
Do a search for "Illegal Immigration" - do it yourself
Haha Greatday, thanks for the response as always. You never stop to amaze me. I forgot the only illegals in this country are hopping the boarder, so if we put minute man at the boarder that is sure to stop ALL illegal immigration.
Look, i'm sorry to break it to you, but we need immigration, if we are ever going to continue to grow this country and continue to grow GDP at a rate of 3-4% a year.
Very simply here are the positives of immigration
More Immigrants -> More Tax Payers -> More Consumption -> More Internal Growth (immigrants are poor and the poor tend to have more kids then the elite and smart) -> More working poor -> More workers at Minimum Wage (for jobs that most Americans do not intend to work) -> Growth in the Manufacturing Industry -> Growth in All Industries, that consume -> Growth in State/Local Taxes -> More taxes to take for Government Funded Socialist Programs -> More Companies will spring up to support the additional consumption -> More jobs will be created at all levels (hopefully not in gov, but in the private sector) -> More Savings -> More money to loan out to businesses -> MORE GROWTH IN GDP (BIGGEST PLUS)
Simple negatives
More Immigrants -> Strain on local social services (this pretty much sums up all the negatives in one stroke. )
-Social Services they will impact
= Public Schools
=Hospital Care
= Police and Fire Departments
= Welfare etc
Question is once these individuals have been like the massive migration of those in the late 1800's and 1900s their children and grand children will make up the cost of their parents and become very productive individuals, that add value to this country. YOU CANNOT ARGUE WITH ME ON THAT POINT! WELL, YOU CAN ARGUE WITH ME, BUT AS THE LORD SAID TO THE VASSAL RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL hahahaha
Haha Greatday, thanks for the response as always. You never stop to amaze me. I forgot the only illegals in this country are hopping the boarder, so if we put minute man at the boarder that is sure to stop ALL illegal immigration.
Look, i'm sorry to break it to you, but we need immigration, if we are ever going to continue to grow this country and continue to grow GDP at a rate of 3-4% a year.
I agree, we need immigration. LEGAL immigration.
Do you understand the difference between LEGAL (those who did it right) and ILLEGAL (those who did it wrong)? I honestly do not think you do.
Name me one country - just one - that allows open and unbridled immigration (permanent) with no legal requirement to immigrate. Just one!
Legal immigrants are welcomed with open arms. Illegals are caught and deported.
Do you understand the difference between LEGAL (those who did it right) and ILLEGAL (those who did it wrong)? I honestly do not think you do.
Name me one country - just one - that allows open and unbridled immigration (permanent) with no legal requirement to immigrate. Just one!
Legal immigrants are welcomed with open arms. Illegals are caught and deported.
Legal versus Illegal.
Which do YOU choose?
Did you take the time to read my original opening post? I guess you did not. Honestly you're pushing yourself closer and closer to the "not worth debating line."
Did you take the time to read my original opening post? I guess you did not. Honestly you're pushing yourself closer and closer to the "not worth debating line."
Yes.
And frankly, you have been "not worth debating" for quite sometime
The "illegals" would've been perfectly legal ... before our immigration laws were written by the KKK and politicians who were either in the KKK or totally sympathetic to the aims of the KKK which were to keep all Blacks, Latins, Asians, Jews, Catholics and other so-called "undersirables" out of America. If those hateful laws were never passed, most of today's illegal aliens would be perfectly legal, as were most of our ancestors who came here before the doors got shut by creepy people who were motivated by sorry-assed isolationism, racism and greed.
For decades, business and anti-union interests have used illegals in abusive ways to drive down labor costs and increase profits, to the known detriment of U.S. citizens. This aspect is truly appalling and all of us should be ashamed of America for letting illegals be abused so intentionally, with indirect abuse to our own citizens who often lose jobs / income / health care benefits as work goes to near-starving illegals who'll work for pitiful wages and no benefits.
Birth rates (aka Total Fertility Rate - TFR) are declining the world over. To remain static, a nation needs a TFR of 2.1 children per female. The USA has a TFR of 1.8 babies per woman which means the USA will lose population over time unless we grow our population via immigration. If we do not grow our population, today's "entitlement programs" will become unaffordable in another 1-2 decades. We MUST grow or face major financial dislocations. For a great book on this, read "Fewer" by Ben Wattenberg, a noted neo-con and regular on PBS shows.
The TFR in Europe and Asia is far more "dire" than here, with TFR's in the range of 1.1 to 1.4 which will eventually mean massive social changes in such nations.
IMO, the writing is on the wall, we must grow or face impoverishment in our older years. What this means, in practical terms, is that most of the illegals who are here, will be allowed to stay here, and some sort of political compromise will be created to make this a reality. Prior Presidents and Congresses have KNOWN this to be true for many years but they keep kicking the can down the road for "the next guy" to try and solve.
How many times have we heard candidates tell us that they're going to "Fix Social Security" but only apply a band-aid to a sucking chest wound? How many times have we heard tough-sounding talk that all to quickly slinks off the pages of newspapers into obscurity? Many of us know the truth but are frustrated at the lack of REAL honesty and REAL solutions. Many of us know the fix will taste as bad as Castor Oil and smell worse than Limburger Cheese.
We now have a President who will finally tell us the truth, not ignore it as has happened in the past. You can hate him if you wish, but someone has to step up and work the best possible solution, which is not necessarily the same as the most desired solution, which many think is to send them home.
Saving / fixing Social Security is going to require a number of steps, such as some of these, but not limited to these:
- Raise the deductions that people pay into it,
- Raise the retirement age for people to start drawing,
- Grow the population of people contributing into the system, which IMO is one of the givens in the near term of 5-20 years
- If we don't grow the base of contributors or raise the input levels, we have to cut payouts
- Close the system entirely for young people entering the workforce, putting them instead into mandatory IRA systems,
- Other ideas yet to be invented.....
To close the loop back to the OP, yes, it sure is ironic that the illegals may well be the main fix for the system in the next 20 years, but beyond that we as a nation need to get a grip on our expectation and entitlements.
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The "illegals" would've been perfectly legal ... before our immigration laws were written by the KKK and politicians who were either in the KKK or totally sympathetic to the aims of the KKK which were to keep all Blacks, Latins, Asians, Jews, Catholics and other so-called "undersirables" out of America. If those hateful laws were never passed, most of today's illegal aliens would be perfectly legal, as were most of our ancestors who came here before the doors got shut by creepy people who were motivated by sorry-assed isolationism, racism and greed.
For decades, business and anti-union interests have used illegals in abusive ways to drive down labor costs and increase profits, to the known detriment of U.S. citizens. This aspect is truly appalling and all of us should be ashamed of America for letting illegals be abused so intentionally, with indirect abuse to our own citizens who often lose jobs / income / health care benefits as work goes to near-starving illegals who'll work for pitiful wages and no benefits.
Birth rates (aka Total Fertility Rate - TFR) are declining the world over. To remain static, a nation needs a TFR of 2.1 children per female. The USA has a TFR of 1.8 babies per woman which means the USA will lose population over time unless we grow our population via immigration. If we do not grow our population, today's "entitlement programs" will become unaffordable in another 1-2 decades. We MUST grow or face major financial dislocations. For a great book on this, read "Fewer" by Ben Wattenberg, a noted neo-con and regular on PBS shows.
The TFR in Europe and Asia is far more "dire" than here, with TFR's in the range of 1.1 to 1.4 which will eventually mean massive social changes in such nations.
IMO, the writing is on the wall, we must grow or face impoverishment in our older years. What this means, in practical terms, is that most of the illegals who are here, will be allowed to stay here, and some sort of political compromise will be created to make this a reality. Prior Presidents and Congresses have KNOWN this to be true for many years but they keep kicking the can down the road for "the next guy" to try and solve.
How many times have we heard candidates tell us that they're going to "Fix Social Security" but only apply a band-aid to a sucking chest wound? How many times have we heard tough-sounding talk that all to quickly slinks off the pages of newspapers into obscurity? Many of us know the truth but are frustrated at the lack of REAL honesty and REAL solutions. Many of us know the fix will taste as bad as Castor Oil and smell worse than Limburger Cheese.
We now have a President who will finally tell us the truth, not ignore it as has happened in the past. You can hate him if you wish, but someone has to step up and work the best possible solution, which is not necessarily the same as the most desired solution, which many think is to send them home.
Saving / fixing Social Security is going to require a number of steps, such as some of these, but not limited to these:
- Raise the deductions that people pay into it,
- Raise the retirement age for people to start drawing,
- Grow the population of people contributing into the system, which IMO is one of the givens in the near term of 5-20 years
- If we don't grow the base of contributors or raise the input levels, we have to cut payouts
- Close the system entirely for young people entering the workforce, putting them instead into mandatory IRA systems,
- Other ideas yet to be invented.....
To close the loop back to the OP, yes, it sure is ironic that the illegals may well be the main fix for the system in the next 20 years, but beyond that we as a nation need to get a grip on our expectation and entitlements.
Yay Mike, thanks for actually posting on topic with a well thought-out list of problems, possible solutions, that all tied back to my original post!!! Excellent well done!! Thank you for adding to the thread!!!!
Well, if you two master minds, Clsicmovies and Great Day, can come up with a brilliant plan on rounding up all these illegals, I'd like to see it.
Now, my first question is simple, are we only going after illegals of Mexican decent or all illegals in this country? (A lot of Russian, Irish, Eastern European, African, and other South Americans outside of Mexicans, that are here illegally)
Next question - How would we go about rounding them up? (Like would we use like some sort of mouse trap apparatus? You know like maybe put a bean (maybe bread) or something on a chain and hope an illegal walks by and picks it up then catch them in the trap? (can you sense the sarcasm?)
Once this question is answered my next question is who will pay for the transporting and catching of illegals? Is this going to be funded by lobbying groups or government tax payers?
If the cost of catching and transporting them back to their home country exceeds the cost of making the legalized citizens why are we doing the above question?
Maybe if you wish hard enough God will smite the illegals and turn them into gophers (I betcha he's a cookin up something, you justa watcha him)
Seriously answer the above questions. If you have an effective plan to catch and transport them back across the boarder that cost me nothing as a tax payer I'm all for it. Maybe we can put some of these over sized hummers and such to good use etc
Oh or even better idea remember what they did to the jack rabbit population in the 1930's...um that's always an idea dare i say it
Not masterminds just telling it like it is. I'm surprised if others cannot figure out any plan for illegals to be deported. Illegals from all nations should be deported of course and asking where they come from brings to mind the race card. Our government has been deporting illegals, and they can increase this action by millions more if they want to, at any time. Eisenhower and Hoover deported many illegals. This is not rocket science to identify and deport, it takes awhile certainly. Government can always get enough money to do anything, as shown by the Obama administration. Didn't have enough money to build border fences until suddenly they did because the people spoke. Private citizens would pay for some or all of deportation because they have had it with illegal immigration and it's destruction of our country.
Also for legal immigration, I think it needs to very limited for awhile because almost one million illegals come across just our Mexican border each year. Then you add the large number of legal immigrants each year. We are like sardines in a can in border states, simply too many people.
Not masterminds just telling it like it is. I'm surprised if others cannot figure out any plan for illegals to be deported. Illegals from all nations should be deported of course and asking where they come from brings to mind the race card. Our government has been deporting illegals, and they can increase this action by millions more if they want to, at any time. Eisenhower and Hoover deported many illegals. This is not rocket science to identify and deport, it takes awhile certainly. Government can always get enough money to do anything, as shown by the Obama administration. Didn't have enough money to build border fences until suddenly they did because the people spoke. Private citizens would pay for some or all of deportation because they have had it with illegal immigration and it's destruction of our country.
Also for legal immigration, I think it needs to very limited for awhile because almost one million illegals come across just our Mexican border each year. Then you add the large number of legal immigrants each year. We are like sardines in a can in border states, simply too many people.
Cliscs, i do appreciate your response and i do understand your concern. However, you failed to actually answer any of my questions. I mean if you were to answer my questions directly I'd appreciate it.
I did not ask you who else could come up with an idea to deport these illegal immigrants, i asked you how you would do it!!! So answer the question how would you do it?
Next i asked who will sponsor this deportation, will you do it via grass roots and private contributions, or will you force the coercion of other tax payers?
In reference to my first question. The reason i asked are you only interested in deporting illegals from South of the Boarder or all illegals is because there was not this much outrage for illegal immigration when a large number of Russians entered our country illegally in the mid 90's under the Clinton Administration. Thanks for answering the question, i respect that you are willing to send all illegals back to where they came from not just the one's from south of the boarder. Also, please refrain from using such stupid buzz words like "race card" with me. For starters you have no idea what my ethnic or racial background is, so leave the dumba@@ "buzz words" to yourself. Anyway, i digress, but if you could answer the other questions i'd ask, we could resume this debate on how all of this will be done.
I did not ask you who else could come up with an idea to deport these illegal immigrants, i asked you how you would do it!!! So answer the question how would you do it?
Next i asked who will sponsor this deportation, will you do it via grass roots and private contributions, or will you force the coercion of other tax payers?
Who "sponsors" deportations? Honestly - that is a very silly, bordering on ignorant question. No one, or no group "sponsors" deportations. Illegal immigrants are ARRESTED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT, then as it happens locally, they are turned over to ICE who processes them and then ICE, an agency of the Federal Government, pursuant to Federal LAW, deports those here illegally to their country of origin.
As to your question above "How would you do it" (deport), it is done by bus to the border in some cases, or for those that live in other countries (illegals from more than 20 countries have been captured in Arizona alone) are flown, on aircraft operated by ICE, to their country of origin.
And, you must realize that polls CLEARLY show that over 80% of AMERICANS support and encourage these deportations.
Now, inasmuch as you ask direct questions, allow me to ask a couple of direct questions of you: Do you live in the United States? Are you an American citizen?
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