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Old 08-11-2009, 02:38 PM
 
1,644 posts, read 4,306,059 times
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Meant to say that if you have private health coverage or chose to pay for something privately then you cannot opt out of the contributions for the UHC system.
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
28,994 posts, read 16,880,056 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
One of the most important item of any broad healthcare plan is who is going to administer the care. We are already short on general or family practice doctors. (In my area it is almost impossible to find an MD if you are on Medicare). If overnight everyone has healthcare there will not be enough doctors to go around. Waiting a week or two for an appointment will turn into months and maybe years. Then there is the question of how much the plan will pay the existing MD's. Lowering the payment will only drive more doctors into specialties and deter young people from entering the field.
Doctors incur huge student loans debts to become a doctor, and some pay anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000 a year in malpractice insurance. Between all the lawyers looking to get rich of a malpractice lawsuit, and public options that reduce the fees paid to doctors, is it any wonder so many people are deciding to choose another profession?

So before we do anything else, we need to figure out why medical costs are so high and set about fixing them. The politicians will have lobbyists from lawyers asking them to not control costs thru new laws aimed at TORT reform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
I think universal health care is a wonderful thing to have. I would like to see needy children get needed medical and dental care. I would like to see seniors who have to choose between food and medicine get their meds at a reasonable cost, etc.
Isn't this already covered with Medicaid, Medicare and S-CHIP? And two out of three are going bankrupt, so we need to fix costs first, before we jump in with a new health care plan.
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by susan42 View Post
Meant to say that if you have private health coverage or chose to pay for something privately then you cannot opt out of the contributions for the UHC system.
I doubt they would let you do that, anymore then they would let you opt out of the social security plan and not pay SS taxes on your wages.
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Old 08-11-2009, 02:49 PM
 
124 posts, read 357,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Doesn't America offer some health care relief for Canada? I would say the answer is yes, Canada's public health care system does get relief in the form of some of its citizens go south for exams, treatments and operations.

I know that the drug companies are forced to sell drugs cheaper in Canada, so do you think those same drug companies pass on their loss in profits to Americans, in the form of higher drug prices?
please point me to the right direction if I misunderstood your comment. There are cases when clinical trial is on the way to test a new drug or treatment, or in some exceptional cases, treatment that is only available in the U.S. for example, patients from foreign countries do come to the States to seek these special treatments. Not too many but there are some cases like these. I am not sure if you are referring to these rare cases. However, more commonly, there are people from the U.S. who go to north in Canada or south in Mexico to buy cheaper drugs. There are also examples that U.S. patients visit other countries for surgeries because the cost is much lower outside. Here we are talking about common illness, but not rare diseases.

Your second point, if a country is buying drugs in bulk, are you willing to use a bulk purchase price to sell your products if you were the drug companies. The price, however, is negotiable. Do you really think that the drug companies are stupid enough to be forced to sell their products without making profits, think again. There are rooms for them to adjust the price because the price has already been jacked up a lot. Do they really have to pass on the cost to us because of that, I do not know, buy hey, they are using a high retail price to begin with in this country, why would they worry about the wholesales price in other countries.

Do you know how much kick back the drug companies are giving to doctors who prescribe their drugs? We think we are living in a normal world only because we do not know anything.
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Old 08-11-2009, 03:26 PM
 
124 posts, read 357,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Doctors incur huge student loans debts to become a doctor, and some pay anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000 a year in malpractice insurance. Between all the lawyers looking to get rich of a malpractice lawsuit, and public options that reduce the fees paid to doctors, is it any wonder so many people are deciding to choose another profession?

So before we do anything else, we need to figure out why medical costs are so high and set about fixing them. The politicians will have lobbyists from lawyers asking them to not control costs thru new laws aimed at TORT reform.


Isn't this already covered with Medicaid, Medicare and S-CHIP? And two out of three are going bankrupt, so we need to fix costs first, before we jump in with a new health care plan.
Wapasha, student loan is not such a big deal considering they can pay their debt over their life-time as a doctor. Besides, there are programs from the NIH that will help pay off their loans if they can settle to do some research at the universities only for a few years. But I agree with you that the malpractice insurance is a big issue. That is why we need to reform. There is a clause from the reform bill that no one should be able to sue a doctor. In fact, I found it strange in this country that when someone is at fault, it will cost him life saving. Suspension of license for a period of time or internal discipline in the hospital, or some compensation to the victim, I think, should be enough for the fault he made, why millions of dollars. This is insane.

I agree that fixing the cost is important, but how. No one really knows the price structure of all these medical costs, a lot of them are hidden and secretive. How are they going to investigate on it.
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Old 08-11-2009, 03:29 PM
 
124 posts, read 357,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by susan42 View Post
I don't want to get accused of hijacking the thread, but I believe you are asking how much people with UHC pay for it?

In the UK those who work pay 5.5% of their earnings, plus employer pays an equal amount.
We pay a fixed amount for prescriptions-around $10 per item.They only precribe 1 months supply at a time.
We pay up to around $350 for a major dental treatment-but if you need 2 crowns you pay that twice.Lowest fee is around $28 for a check up.
Eye tests are free but we pay for specatacles-whatever lenses you need and however much the frames are.
Children don't pay for anything.
Over 60s get free scripts, but still pay for specs and dental-same rate.
If you don't work you don't pay anything.
susan, it is interesting to know the UK system. The one in Hong Kong is not the same. Anyone can tell me something about the Canadian system?
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Old 08-11-2009, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
28,994 posts, read 16,880,056 times
Reputation: 9145
Quote:
Originally Posted by donalduckmoore View Post
please point me to the right direction if I misunderstood your comment. There are cases when clinical trial is on the way to test a new drug or treatment, or in some exceptional cases, treatment that is only available in the U.S. for example, patients from foreign countries do come to the States to seek these special treatments. Not too many but there are some cases like these. I am not sure if you are referring to these rare cases. However, more commonly, there are people from the U.S. who go to north in Canada or south in Mexico to buy cheaper drugs. There are also examples that U.S. patients visit other countries for surgeries because the cost is much lower outside. Here we are talking about common illness, but not rare diseases.
The Canadian government puts caps on the costs for drugs. But the drug companies spend billions testing their drugs and getting them approved, and if Canada demands lower prices, the drug companies just get their profits by raising drug prices on Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donalduckmoore View Post
Your second point, if a country is buying drugs in bulk, are you willing to use a bulk purchase price to sell your products if you were the drug companies. The price, however, is negotiable. Do you really think that the drug companies are stupid enough to be forced to sell their products without making profits, think again.
If the Canadian government place price caps on drugs, the drug companies have no choice but to either except those prices, or not sell in Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donalduckmoore View Post
Do you know how much kick back the drug companies are giving to doctors who prescribe their drugs? We think we are living in a normal world only because we do not know anything.
I know a few doctors and none get kickbacks from drug companies, but they do give away some of the free samples.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
28,994 posts, read 16,880,056 times
Reputation: 9145
Quote:
Originally Posted by donalduckmoore View Post
Wapasha, student loan is not such a big deal considering they can pay their debt over their life-time as a doctor. Besides, there are programs from the NIH that will help pay off their loans if they can settle to do some research at the universities only for a few years. But I agree with you that the malpractice insurance is a big issue. That is why we need to reform. There is a clause from the reform bill that no one should be able to sue a doctor. In fact, I found it strange in this country that when someone is at fault, it will cost him life saving. Suspension of license for a period of time or internal discipline in the hospital, or some compensation to the victim, I think, should be enough for the fault he made, why millions of dollars. This is insane.

I agree that fixing the cost is important, but how. No one really knows the price structure of all these medical costs, a lot of them are hidden and secretive. How are they going to investigate on it.
Texas has some new TORT legislation, and it is lowering the medical costs, and drawing doctors back to the state. I'm not sure what all they have done, but is seems to be working.

I'm wondering if anyone has some info on this.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,106 posts, read 37,130,543 times
Reputation: 4924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
I doubt they would let you do that, anymore then they would let you opt out of the social security plan and not pay SS taxes on your wages.
Actually, you CAN opt out of Social Security and Medicare.

That said, there are millions of people who, for whatever reason, and even though they can financially afford it, have voluntarily chosen NOT TO PURCHASE insurance - and there is no way to force them to purchase insurance.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:28 AM
 
48,507 posts, read 90,769,669 times
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I thnk that the difference with those countries is that it is not expected for the top payers or any one class to pay for all the cost. That is what I see happening here is they want to put the burden on either the rich;corporations or some other group.Bacailly we have people that want to be freeloaders and bare no burden for their own survival and this is bad for the country. Its like sending children into a candy store with a credit card; he isn't going to make a wise choice or worry about limits.
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