U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-12-2009, 01:51 AM
 
252 posts, read 628,280 times
Reputation: 360

Advertisements

Whether or not one is for the current health care reform, I think one needs to realize that something needs to be done because the majority of the uninsured are not freeloaders. Just found this article tonight: its how things are currently in the USA. And to imagine the amount of people who needed it that didn't get care or who just happened to not hear about it. I don't see how americans can care about the poor of other countries, but just turns a blind eye to its own:

Mass Medical Clinic's Sobering Message : NPR
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-12-2009, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
29,451 posts, read 17,050,349 times
Reputation: 9380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Actually, you CAN opt out of Social Security and Medicare.

That said, there are millions of people who, for whatever reason, and even though they can financially afford it, have voluntarily chosen NOT TO PURCHASE insurance - and there is no way to force them to purchase insurance.
The same for people who drive around with no car insurance. We can harp about the uninsured car owners as if they are victims, but many are just too cheap to buy it. But I'm sure if we gave it to them for free, they would show up with a claim after the first hail storm, or car door ding from the local Kmart parking lot.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2009, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
29,451 posts, read 17,050,349 times
Reputation: 9380
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I thnk that the difference with those countries is that it is not expected for the top payers or any one class to pay for all the cost. That is what I see happening here is they want to put the burden on either the rich;corporations or some other group.Bacailly we have people that want to be freeloaders and bare no burden for their own survival and this is bad for the country. Its like sending children into a candy store with a credit card; he isn't going to make a wise choice or worry about limits.
When you get to the point where more then 50% of the population do not pay income taxes then they will be in favor of more, more and more, because it costs them nothing, as 0bama says, "They have no skin in the game."

I have always thought that we need to help the most needy and those who cannot take care of themselves, but we are approaching a point where even people who make a comfortable upper middle class income are being treated to free government programs as if they are infirmed.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2009, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
29,451 posts, read 17,050,349 times
Reputation: 9380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maude Kipz View Post
Whether or not one is for the current health care reform, I think one needs to realize that something needs to be done because the majority of the uninsured are not freeloaders. Just found this article tonight: its how things are currently in the USA. And to imagine the amount of people who needed it that didn't get care or who just happened to not hear about it. I don't see how americans can care about the poor of other countries, but just turns a blind eye to its own:

Mass Medical Clinic's Sobering Message : NPR
Wouldn't they qualify for Medicare, Medicaid, S-Chip or other state funded health care?

The argument by some is: Why should a family in Pittsburgh be taxed to pay for the health insurance for another family in Miami? Are their no taxpayers in Florida? If the states are not taking care of those people that need health care in their own state, shouldn't that be a state concern?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2009, 07:59 PM
 
814 posts, read 1,909,913 times
Reputation: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Actually, you CAN opt out of Social Security and Medicare.
How?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2009, 08:06 PM
 
814 posts, read 1,909,913 times
Reputation: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maude Kipz View Post
Whether or not one is for the current health care reform, I think one needs to realize that something needs to be done because the majority of the uninsured are not freeloaders. Just found this article tonight: its how things are currently in the USA. And to imagine the amount of people who needed it that didn't get care or who just happened to not hear about it. I don't see how americans can care about the poor of other countries, but just turns a blind eye to its own:

Mass Medical Clinic's Sobering Message : NPR
Why is it surprising that when something is free, people line up for it?

These people obviously don't care to spend their own money on medical and dental care but are more than happy to let someone else pay the bill.

Wonder how many of them are able to pay for their own $4 a pack cigarettes?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2009, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 37,195,715 times
Reputation: 4924
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
How?
To find out more information, type in "opting out of social security" in your internet search engine.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2009, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 37,195,715 times
Reputation: 4924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
The same for people who drive around with no car insurance. We can harp about the uninsured car owners as if they are victims, but many are just too cheap to buy it. But I'm sure if we gave it to them for free, they would show up with a claim after the first hail storm, or car door ding from the local Kmart parking lot.
None of the health insurance will be free. I'm not sure where you got that idea.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2009, 05:12 AM
 
48,507 posts, read 90,982,645 times
Reputation: 18204
Sure alot will be free that is one reason the subsidtiy by governamnt will be so high. Look at the CBO saying that 30% of people withput insurance are offered insurnce by their employer but refuse it along. What makes you think that people that now don't pay their medical bills are suddenly going to start paying their share of the cost. It isn't just medical bills people don't pay afterall.The reason so many want universal is to get someone else to pay their medcial bills. It isn't like the governamnt is going to look to see if people are buying new cars;cellphone and other non-necessities rather than paying their bills as they do now. Even Obama said in the campign for the nomination that its impossible to mandate everyone buy insurance; no matter if there were a government plan. He estimated 15 million will not. What are they going to do throw them in jail if they don't?Refuse them healthcare at emergency rooms?There is no reason that there can not be a pool of people and changes that offer heatlh care insurnace without a government plan which is what many advocate ;not having the government provide funding which will be very costly and hurt the economy has empoyers dump their insurance over time.Then you will see real change in the quialty of medciane offered ;research in medicines and treatment,Its like anything when you cut cost; you basically endup with rationing like so many countries have now.Why do you think they want a board to decide treatment options. Because much of what you get now will be rationed as to who gets it. Of course those that can play will get what they want.If they think its so good ;why do the senators and congressman excempt themselves from the government plan? Why because they want more options.

Last edited by texdav; 08-13-2009 at 05:31 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2009, 05:17 AM
 
1,718 posts, read 2,164,502 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
I'm in total disagreement.

Any time you make anything "free", there will be unlimited demand for that commodity.

Everyone is thinking they're going to get more out of the system than they put in.

Sorry, that's not going to work.
You are correct. There is an achievement gap in this country caused largely by low intelligence, ability and initiative. There are 25% of us with IQ's below 90 for whom life is at best an uphill battle. There are 5% of us with IQ's below 75 who are at extremely high risk for poor life outcomes. Our economy is never going to be able to employ all of these folks. These folks are never going to be able to produce even what they need to survive.

What is it that is produced by those with the ability to do so. It's food, housing and transportation among many other things including medical insurance. In this country we don't just let these people perish. We have programs paid for by the producers in the form of taxes to provide such things as food and clothing for those who cannot produce for themselves. This, of course, lowers the standard of living of the producers and raises the standard of living of the non-producers.

For humanitarian reasons, this is something that most of us do not object to. The only question is to what degree are we willing to raise the standard of living of the non-producers at the expense of our standard of living? How much redistribution of wealth are we for in this country?

Medical insurance and access to health care is now considered a basic human right in the US not unlike access to food and housing. Medical insurance and health care are becoming part of the welfare programs being made available to the non-producers at little or no cost. This absolutely has to further lower the standard of living for the producers. The quality of health care for the producers will indeed be lower.

There could be some racial politics involved in this redistribution. Among those who benefit most from these redistributive programs (the non-producers), blacks, hispanics and immigrants are over represented. Obama has said that his version of reparations would take the form of such things as universal healthcare and universal education.

- Reel
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top