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Old 08-13-2009, 07:50 PM
 
29,713 posts, read 32,775,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
I believe the problem with a national public health care system is that instead of being run by doctors and health care professional, it will be run by politicians, whose main motivation in life is to get reelected.

These same politicians, senators and congressmen, write the bills and amendments to them and the president signs them. Years later when the program runs into trouble, no one remembers which members of the congress or senate wrote which bill, or added which amendment, the people just point to the president who signed it and the party he belongs to as the guilty ones, and they never hold the senate and congress accountable. so the same senators and congressmen go about writing the fixes, which break the thing even more, and the president gets the blame.

Public health care is also funded with taxpayer money, and too many politicians see this as an endless supply of money. So when a public program needs more money, it gets more money. when was the last time you saw a sincere interest in preventing the fraud and waste in a government program? You don't, the program gets expanded and gets even more money from taxpayers.

I don't see how a public system of universal health care will be any different. Can someone convince me otherwise?
Thank you for saying this!!! I have been saying similar things, but you said it better.

It's too bad that this is how things get done in America. But this is the reality of it. Thinking "it won't be that way this time" won't make it so.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:56 PM
 
29,713 posts, read 32,775,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
I would agree that reform is needed - but selective reform, not an entire overhaul. I'm glad to see that the process has been slowed to give people an opportunity to voice their opinions and question the plan. However, I am concerned that the plan will be so watered down, influenced by Pharma and other lobbyists, as to make it more detrimental than beneficial to the population. The Democrats are determined to get something passed - anything - just to support Obama and to be able to point to having done it. I don't think that's the best way to go about it. We are all bound to end up with the short end of the stick.
Good points all around. Even if they could just get limits on the malpractice suits, that would be something. But Obama & the Dems have already said they're not going to go for that.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
28,958 posts, read 16,862,946 times
Reputation: 9129
Quote:
Originally Posted by cap1717 View Post
Your post points to a greater, system problem in our largely uncontrolled capatilistic system. Those who are offered employer sponsored health insurance, and do not take it, are motiviated the unfortuante fact that providing housing, food, clothing and transportation for themselves and or their families, takes every single bit of the paycheck. There is simply nothing left with which to pay the 80 to 100 dollar a month "employee contribution". I have worked with a number of people in such circumstances, and they are hard working, dependable, dilligent employees, struggleing to "get by" with minimum wage or low paying jobs. Can you imagine how it might be to have to "live on" 10 dollars an hour, for instance? After taxes, that will be less than 400 per month take home pay, out of which must come the rent or mortgage, utilities, food, clothing, transportation and insurance. Even for a frugal single person, this is really a BIG CHALLENGE, how much more difficult it must be for the single mother, or others who are attempting to care for more than just themselves!
Doesn't SCHIP cover the those people? If not, the best place to turn to would be the states, not the federal government.

At least the state controlled health care can be flexible, and with all 50 states all working on some form of health care, we should eventually find one that works. A federally controlled health care is inflexible, and everyone is stuck with it, wtih no where else to go if it sucks or costs too much.
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Old 08-13-2009, 07:59 PM
 
29,713 posts, read 32,775,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Shouldn't we also study why health care costs in America are so high, and bring them under control before we just ask taxpayers to absorb them in a national public system?
Yes, I think this is exactly what we should do. Unfortunately, the Dems want to just say it's capitalism that caused this.

The reality is that the supposed 'free market' in health care has all kinds of barriers to true compeition.

One major issue that jacks up costs it he 3rd party system. Employers and the government pay most of the cost of health care, so people have little incentive to use care efficiently.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 17,799,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Yes, I think this is exactly what we should do. Unfortunately, the Dems want to just say it's capitalism that caused this.

The reality is that the supposed 'free market' in health care has all kinds of barriers to true compeition.

One major issue that jacks up costs it he 3rd party system. Employers and the government pay most of the cost of health care, so people have little incentive to use care efficiently.
Sure, that is why the majority of bankruptcies in the greatest health care county in the world ARE due to healthcare costs. Most of those folks are/were middle class and worked and had coverage through their jobs.

Yeah. Keep telling yourself that.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,377 posts, read 111,889,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
I'm in total disagreement.

Any time you make anything "free", there will be unlimited demand for that commodity.

Everyone is thinking they're going to get more out of the system than they put in.

Sorry, that's not going to work.
Funny, this. The OP is telling us how well it works in Hong Kong, and those who have never lived there, never dealt with HK's health system, are sure they know better than him.

Wow, just wow!
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,377 posts, read 111,889,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
Most people who receive something for nothing are very happy with it. It's the ones who receive nothing for something who complain. How selfish of them!

Why can't we all be like your parents, i.e., draw more benefits out of a system than we pay for? It's simple; you can only take out of a system what you put in--no more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
People like your parents are happy with it because they don't know the true cost of Medicare. The continual cost increases in Medicare are simply not sustainable and we Americans are in denial about it.
Anyone else want to bash littledolphin's parents? Geez, you guys are sure examples of "compassionate conservatives", not! You have no idea of his/her parents circumstances, none at all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
This is a very poor, inappropriate analogy.

But let me ask this: Does the homeowner have any responsibility to fight the fire with his own resources before the fire department gets there?

Simply because health care costs have outpaced one's personal income is not a reason to take that option away from those who can afford it.

Again, your money or your life? Make a choice.
Sometimes a fire just takes off, to continue with your poor analogy. That's why we have fire departments, to put out the big ones!

Yes, you can "take two aspirin and call in the mornng", but are you advocating some return to folk medicine or something? Know anyone who can do their own X-rays, draw their own blood and run it, set their own bones, do their own surgery? This is nuts, just nuts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Doesn't SCHIP cover the those people? If not, the best place to turn to would be the states, not the federal government.

At least the state controlled health care can be flexible, and with all 50 states all working on some form of health care, we should eventually find one that works. A federally controlled health care is inflexible, and everyone is stuck with it, wtih no where else to go if it sucks or costs too much.
SCHIP only covers children. And you know, the funny thing is, if everyone who qualfied did sign up, the states would fast run out of money for the programs. Something needs to be fixed.
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Old 09-05-2009, 12:11 PM
 
814 posts, read 1,904,881 times
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Quote:
SCHIP only covers children. And you know, the funny thing is, if everyone who qualfied did sign up, the states would fast run out of money for the programs. Something needs to be fixed.
Whoa! If everyone who qualified did sign up, the states would fast run out of money...

But the Federal government won't? Don't they both get their money from the same place?

[ mod cut: personal attack ] You are right that 'something needs to be fixed' and that something is the Federal government meddling in the marketplace. There is no constitutional basis for it in the first place and the institution of subsidized health care is what created the mess we have today. So we're going to fix it with LOTS more subsidization.

Last edited by Mike from back east; 09-05-2009 at 01:30 PM..
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Old 09-05-2009, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,377 posts, read 111,889,427 times
Reputation: 35920
SCHIP is a federal/state program. My point was, a lot of conservatives say in regard to the uninsured, that many are kids who would qualify for government programs if their parents signed them up. Do you see the flaw in that logic? If more people signed up for government programs, fewer would be unisured. Well, no duh! And these programs would cost more money!

Overview National CHIP Policy

"The Children's Health Insurance Program is jointly financed by the Federal and State governments and is administered by the States. Within broad Federal guidelines, each State determines the design of its program, eligibility groups, benefit packages, payment levels for coverage, and administrative and operating procedures. "
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