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Old 08-13-2009, 04:22 PM
 
27,625 posts, read 21,026,409 times
Reputation: 11091

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greentown View Post
I have to wonder where this information you posted came from. It references a "provision in the bill", but what bill, as there are several bills in the House and Senate that have not been voted on. It's actually laughable that anyone can believe anything that the White House puts out and the Senators say in the town hall meetings because the truth is that ALL of it still being negotiated. When it comes down to a actual vote, there will be last minute changes and additions and in the end, just as with the stimulus bill, the dopes in congress won't even know what they are voting for and we the taxpayers will get stuck paying for Obama's schemes.

At some point, we are going to run out of money to pay for all of this entitlement. Cutbacks in healthcare will happen, and I for one am glad that Palin and others actually read the proposed bill and raised these questions now rather than later.
The OP provided the link and I just copied the relevant paragraph. Palin did not raise any valid points, she just displayed more venom and lunacy, as usual.

The repeal of the Bush tax cuts will more than pay for the public option. As it stands now, we cannot afford the monopoly of health insurance companies and our taxes paying for emergency room visits used as routine doctor visits.

 
Old 08-13-2009, 04:29 PM
 
27,625 posts, read 21,026,409 times
Reputation: 11091
Quote:
Originally Posted by greentown View Post
I think you better check with Michael Moore. Didn't he do a special a year or two ago about how great Cuba's healthcare system was? Now this list says it's worse than the U.S.? What's going on?
It was unaffordable here.

“Our aim is to provide safe and affordable healthcare services and products for patients, regardless of their income and where they live,” said Jorgenson. “We have visited Cuba several times to inspect the hospitals and clinics and meet with health professionals, and find their quality of care and high standards are comparable to those in Canada and the U.S.”

Canadian owned Choice Self Directed Healthcare Dental Medical Tourism from Cuba

Moore took a group of ailing 9-11 first responders to Cuba last March while he was shooting SiCKO. The destination was the U.S Guantánamo base health facility, the only universal health care provider in US territory according to Moore. But as they were not welcomed there, Moore sought help in Cuba and got it. In Havana, rescuers suffering from diseases caused by their work at Ground Zero in New York in September 2001 were provided, at almost no cost, the medical treatment they had been denied in the US.

“They didn’t let me in at Guantánamo, and as I was in Cuba what else could I do? So I said to myself, let me take a look at the Cuban health care system and I saw that they have incredible assistance and excellent medical attention”, said Moore in explanation.


http://www.cubanow.net/pages/loader.php?sec=8&t=2&item=2862 (broken link)
 
Old 08-13-2009, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Metro-Detroit area
4,050 posts, read 3,946,464 times
Reputation: 2107
Quote:
Originally Posted by greentown View Post
I have to wonder where this information you posted came from. It references a "provision in the bill", but what bill, as there are several bills in the House and Senate that have not been voted on. It's actually laughable that anyone can believe anything that the White House puts out and the Senators say in the town hall meetings because the truth is that ALL of it still being negotiated. When it comes down to a actual vote, there will be last minute changes and additions and in the end, just as with the stimulus bill, the dopes in congress won't even know what they are voting for and we the taxpayers will get stuck paying for Obama's schemes.

At some point, we are going to run out of money to pay for all of this entitlement. Cutbacks in healthcare will happen, and I for one am glad that Palin and others actually read the proposed bill and raised these questions now rather than later.
Your reasoning seems somewhat flawed.
You state that Palin has actually read the proposed bill, yet how can she make an assertion of "death panels" when the very author of that section himself states that she is being untruthful?

..And Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore., who authored the provision on end-of-life counseling, said he is astounded that Palin has not tempered her bleak descriptions of the health care bill.

"It's deliberate at this point," Blumenauer said. "If she wasn't deliberately lying at the beginning, she is deliberately allowing a terrible falsehood to be spread with her name."



..Georgia Sen. Johnny Isakson, a Republican who co-sponsored a similar measure in the Senate, said it was "nuts" to claim the bill encourages euthanasia.


It's pretty obvious that if she did read the proposed bill she is, lieing, illiterate,
was drunk/high when she read it, or wants to pump it for her political agenda.

Let "reason" and common sense be the compass for what she is saying, and if that's the case, her only reasons for her statements are listed above.
 
Old 08-13-2009, 04:37 PM
 
2,170 posts, read 2,851,870 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
Here's a partial list...


The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba


Well, maybe we should attempt to emulate France's version, considering the fact they they rank #1 and we rank #37.

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems
I would like to know the criteria used to determine these rankings.
 
Old 08-13-2009, 04:51 PM
 
4,459 posts, read 4,193,314 times
Reputation: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
The government already is responsible for most late in life medical decisions through Medicare. That isn't going to change and the last time I checked Medicare had no death panels.

Just more Republican lies.
might ad the VA which is run by the government also has counseling when it comes to late in life medical decisions.
 
Old 08-13-2009, 05:01 PM
 
27,625 posts, read 21,026,409 times
Reputation: 11091
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGACK View Post
I would like to know the criteria used to determine these rankings.
The World Health Organization has carried out the first ever analysis of the world’s health systems. Using five performance indicators to measure health systems in 191 member states, it finds that France provides the best overall health care followed among major countries by Italy, Spain, Oman, Austria and Japan.

PR-2000-43/ WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION : ASSESSES THE WORLD'S HEALTH SYSTEMS
 
Old 08-13-2009, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,697 posts, read 6,421,837 times
Reputation: 5046
As further proof of her status as village idiot, Palin was for end-of-life counseling before she was against it. Read on......
WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions.

WHEREAS, in Alaska, Alaska Statute 13.52 provides the specifics of the advance directives law and offers a model form for patient use.

WHEREAS, it is estimated that only about 20 percent of people in Alaska have executed an advance directive. Moreover, it is estimated that less than 50 percent of severely or terminally ill patients have an advance directive.

WHEREAS, it is likely that a significant reason for these low percentages is that there is both a lack of knowledge and considerable confusion in the public about Advance Directives.

WHEREAS, one of the principal goals of Healthcare Decisions Day is to encourage hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, continuing care retirement communities, and hospices to participate in a statewide effort to provide clear and consistent information to the public about advance directives, as well as to encourage medical professionals and lawyers to volunteer their time and efforts to improve public knowledge and increase the number of Alaska’s citizens with advance directives.

WHEREAS, the Foundation for End of Life Care in Juneau, Alaska, and other organizations throughout the United States have endorsed this event and are committed to educating the public about the importance of discussing healthcare choices and executing advance directives.

WHEREAS, as a result of April 16, 2008, being recognized as Healthcare Decisions Day in Alaska, more citizens will have conversations about their healthcare decisions; more citizens will execute advance directives to make their wishes known; and fewer families and healthcare providers will have to struggle with making difficult healthcare decisions in the absence of guidance from the patient.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Sarah Palin, Governor of the state of Alaska, do hereby proclaim April 16, 2008, as:

Healthcare Decisions Day in Alaska, and I call this observance to the attention of all our citizens.
Source
 
Old 08-13-2009, 05:10 PM
 
2,170 posts, read 2,851,870 times
Reputation: 883
WaPo columnist Eugene Robinson, a card carrying liberal has a few observations about the whole end of life question:

Quote:
The unvarnished truth is that services are ultimately going to have to be curtailed regardless of what happens with reform. We perform more expensive tests, questionable surgeries and high-tech diagnostic scans than we can afford. We spend unsustainable amounts of money on patients during the final year of life.

Yes, it's true that doctors order some questionable procedures defensively, to keep from getting sued. But it's a cop-out to blame the doctors or the tort lawyers. We're the ones who demand these tests, scans and surgeries. And why not? If a technology exists that can prolong life or improve its quality, even for a few weeks or months, why shouldn't we want it?

That's the reason people are so frightened and enraged about the proposed measure that would allow Medicare to pay for end-of-life counseling. If the government says it has to control health-care costs and then offers to pay doctors to give advice about hospice care, citizens are not delusional to conclude that the goal is to reduce end-of-life spending. It's irresponsible for politicians, such as Sarah Palin, to claim -- outlandishly and falsely -- that there's going to be some kind of "death panel" to decide when to pull the plug on Aunt Sylvia. But it's understandable why people might associate the phrase "health-care reform" with limiting their choices during Aunt Sylvia's final days.
Whether you call them death panels, or terminal treatment review boards or anything else. The fact of the matter is the government will, in the end, insert itself in to the doctor-patient relationship with the sole intention of keeping costs down. Even Eugene Robinson knows that. His problem is he thinks that's just fine.

washingtonpost.com
 
Old 08-13-2009, 05:26 PM
 
27,625 posts, read 21,026,409 times
Reputation: 11091
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGACK View Post
WaPo columnist Eugene Robinson, a card carrying liberal has a few observations about the whole end of life question:



Whether you call them death panels, or terminal treatment review boards or anything else. The fact of the matter is the government will, in the end, insert itself in to the doctor-patient relationship with the sole intention of keeping costs down. Even Eugene Robinson knows that. His problem is he thinks that's just fine.

washingtonpost.com
I do not see how you are coming to this conclusion. This will be an option given to the patient and the family of the patient. I do not see any evidence in the Medicare system that people are coerced into ending their lives to cut costs. Please provide a link to an article that shows this being done.
 
Old 08-13-2009, 05:33 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,572,836 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
Here's a partial list...


The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Oh, they're just jealous of us.

The mantra of many Americans seems to be: We're right, even when we know we're wrong.
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