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You appear to equate a public (non-profit) system with lack of quality. My sister, who suffers from a large number of autoimune diseases, and who has severe osteoporosis, and who has recieved 4 or 5 surgeries for joint replacement and total bone collapse of the pelvis, in the past 8 years, recieves much better, and much lower cost medical treatment than I get. My plan (the HMO plan selected by my employer) costs me more than my sister pays, monthly, PLUS my employers contribution, and has high co-pays and very high deductibles. I am 2 years older than my sister and much healthier, with no major health problems, and only a few, mostly "accidental" rather than systemic problems, yet at 64 years of age , am prohibited from recieveing the screening procedures that my physician reccomends, due to excessive co-pay costs! Why would I have any reason to think that "public insurance" has less "quality" than the private plan that I now have? I can assure you that I will switch to Medicare as soon as I am 65 years old, and be grateful to have it. Is is so bad to wish that everyone had the good, affordable health insurance that my sister has?
Your situation isn't unique and I'm sorry you are having to experience this. As stated previously, we do need reform and your example proves this. Nonetheless, I can also provide examples of Canadian patients who didn't get authorized to receive certain treatments and they had to wait nearly a year to see the specialist in Canada before seeing me. After dealing with that headache, they decided to see a U.S. doctor and just get treated on their own. Luckily they could afford to come here but there are millions that don't have those resources and have to suffer. Also remember that your sister lives in a country that pays much higher taxes as I proved above. Given our tax structure, our govt has to pay for these services in some manner and that means they will do so by reducing services even more than what you are receiving!
the Economist. and you're still totally wrong on the issue. I've already adressed the difference between income taxes and other taxes and you've still yet to realise, after being told by more than just myself in this short thread, that nobody in europe even comes close to not only 70-80% income tax but 70-80% total tax. You are spreading lies.
A canadian is "taxed" on their health care depending on which provence they live in (there is no "national" plan in this sense) and their income and because tax is such a dirty word in america we have no stomach for it. but there's no doubt that what a canadian pays in tax each year is less than what we americans pay in monthly premiums, yearly deductables, co-pays, higher co-pays for specialists etc.
our tax base is lower but we are nickled and dimed at every opportunity. if a canadian needs emergency heart surgery they get it and walk out of the hospital knowing they won't have to declare bankruptcy or are going to lose their house.
I provided evidence. Do you have any evidence to support your claims? Furthermore, I didn't state other countries pay 70-80% in income tax. I said they pay 70-80% of their income in taxes. That link clearly shows these countries pay 35-40% in income tax alone and when you account for their other taxes, they can pay up to 70-80% taxes! That's what you fail to understand. The money has to come from somewhere. Since our tax structure doesn't mirror theirs, the public option will be similar to Medicaid in which you will be denied certain services, medication and longer waits in order to reduce costs.
Think your taxes are bad? - MSN Money (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P148855.asp - broken link)
An American who needs emergency heart surgery will get it as well, they just have to show up in the Emergency Room and the public pays for it.
Most French or Germans are covered through their employers too. And no one in Europe pays 70-80% of their income in taxes. That's silly.
The graph only includes their income tax not the total tax they are responsible for paying which is much higher. And even if we are talking about personal income tax alone, I don't want to pay 41% in income tax like France. Thank god we live in the United States.
There is a provision in one of the bills to prevent this I believe.
Even if this is the case, which I believe is a likely possibility, many companies will just stop offering coverage altogether. They would not required to cover their employees if the public option exists. And many companies provide health insurance to offset the high cost of health insurance. If a public option is available, then many companies will stop offering coverage altogether. Is that what you want?
Your situation isn't unique and I'm sorry you are having to experience this. As stated previously, we do need reform and your example proves this. Nonetheless, I can also provide examples of Canadian patients who didn't get authorized to receive certain treatments and they had to wait nearly a year to see the specialist in Canada before seeing me. After dealing with that headache, they decided to see a U.S. doctor and just get treated on their own. Luckily they could afford to come here but there are millions that don't have those resources and have to suffer. Also remember that your sister lives in a country that pays much higher taxes as I proved above. Given our tax structure, our govt has to pay for these services in some manner and that means they will do so by reducing services even more than what you are receiving!
Think your taxes are bad? - MSN Money (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P148855.asp - broken link)
My sister lives in Phoenix, AZ, same as me, and less than one mile from me. Why in the world do you think that she pays "higher taxes" than I do? I am speaking of Medicare, the government program that insures the elderly and the dissabled, NOT a Canadian plan!
My sister lives in Phoenix, AZ, same as me, and less than one mile from me. Why in the world do you think that she pays "higher taxes" than I do? I am speaking of Medicare, the government program that insures the elderly and the dissabled, NOT a Canadian plan!
My apologies, I thought you meant your sister lived in a UHC country. Most of my patients are on Medicare and I've personally witnessed the drop in services each year. The majority of my Medicare patients pay for secondary private insurance coverage because Medicare doesn't pay for many services. Lastly, the public option, unlike Medicare, will be asked to cover more people so cost cutting measures will need to be implemented because they are going to have to pay for this in some manner which means reduced service for you.
I'm suprised that someone who is about to go on Medicare would support this public option. If anyone is going to get shortchanged, it will be you guys. Are you a veteran? Have you been to the VA on 7th st? Go to ward 2C, that's the type of health care you are going to receive. Seriously, check it out. There are 4 patients in one room separated tiny little curtains with little to no privacy and one bathroom. They have a tough time getting a nurse to see them because there are not a enough of them. I could go on. That's Obamacare coming to all
My apologies, I thought you meant your sister lived in a UHC country. Most of my patients are on Medicare and I've personally witnessed the drop in services each year. The majority of my Medicare patients pay for secondary private insurance coverage because Medicare doesn't pay for many services. Lastly, the public option, unlike Medicare, will be asked to cover more people so cost cutting measures will need to be implemented because they are going to have to pay for this in some manner which means reduced service for you.
I'm suprised that someone who is about to go on Medicare would support this public option. If anyone is going to get shortchanged, it will be you guys. Are you a veteran? Have you been to the VA on 7th st? Go to ward 2C, that's the type of health care you are going to receive. Seriously, check it out. There are 4 patients in one room separated tiny little curtains with little to no privacy and one bathroom. They have a tough time getting a nurse to see them because there are not a enough of them. I could go on. That's Obamacare coming to all
Well, I know that I will have to aquire a medicare supplement plan, and the cost of medicare + the supplement plan will be less than what I now pay for insurance. I will not burden ANY health care system with expensive "end of life" treatments, and have both living will and medical power of attorney to assure that.
Several years ago my friend's father, a 40's era vetern was hospitalized at the VA facility at 7th and Indian School. You are correct, his room was divided into 4 areas for 4 beds, but it was clean and the care he recieved (we visited him daily, at different times of the day) was, to my eye at least extraordinary. We spoke to both Dr.'s and R.N.s, as well a LPN's, as frequently as we wished to, and no one seemed in a hurry to "get rid" of us. The patient recieved excellent medical care, even if it was not in a "luxury" enviornment, and has returned home and to full health with no complications. I am willing to give up "luxury" for the chance see all served in this way, myself included. Do we really live in a nation of such "spoiled brats" that unless we have every concievable luxury served up with our health care, we are dissatisfied? My experience of the VA hospital was just one, I do not expect that every outcome was as "good" for the patient, but I do not expect Dr's to be "gods" either, I do expect them to put their patients welfare high on their list of priorites, and to do so without any expectation of large financial gain, while being well paid for their services. We do need tort reform, I come from a family of physicians and other high level health care professionals, and realize how much the fear of lawsuits adds to our collective "health care costs", but I would still wish good patient care for all rather than "luxury care" for the few, even if I were one of "the few"!
No shift at all. I do believe there should be health care reform but not from this con man or his devious thugs in the Democrat congress that have proved they can not be trusted.
COMPANIES WILL NOT CANCEL THEIR EMPLOYEE'S HEALTH INSURANCE
This is true for two reasons
1. They have to pay an 8% tax if they don't provide the insurance for their employees. In many cases, this is more than they are already playing.
2. This is the biggest, they will lose their competitive advantage, if cancelling their insurance. Companies that provide their employees with good insurance, will obtain the best talent. This makes them more competitive, and puts the idiots that dropped their insurance out of business.
I don't think anyone disagrees that healthcare reform needs to be implemented, but we do disagree with how that goal is to be attained. In the Price Water-House Coopers analysis 200 billion dollars is wasted on defensive medicine meaning physicians and hospitals order extraneous tests to protect themselves against malpractice lawsuits. Those numbers are unaccounted for in statements made by the CBO that state malpractice suits only account for the 1-4%. In additon nearly 3/4 of malpractice suits that go to trial favor the defense proving the majority of these lawsuits have no merit. The criteria to which a suit can be filed needs to be adjusted since the majority are frivolous. Personal injury attorneys lose nothing in the process. They are aware that most physicians will settle out of court because the cost of defending themselves is more than settling. Even physicians who have won cases will tell you they lost a considerable amount of time away from the practice not to mention the emotional and stressful experience of being involved in it.
Much money is wasted in the world of health care.
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
I agree that Private Insurance premiums are outrageously expensive. I also agree these companies are greedy and have raised premiums not in line with costs. However, I don't agree that the solution is a public option. That will lead to socialized health care. Most Americans are insured through their employers. With a public option, employers will opt to provide health insurance to their employees under the Obamacare plan instead of private insurance plans because it's cheaper. The majority of Americans will lose their private insurance coverage as a result and be placed on the public option. This will force private insurance companies to lower premiums to compete, but they will do so at the expense of the patient. Like any business, private insurance companies will not lower their executive pay but instead will shift the burden onto the patients and the doctors. When companies are forced to incur higher costs, do they sacrafice with regard to executive pay or do they increase prices? I think we know the answer to that. Private Insurance will deny services to patients such as authorizing visits to specialists, denying use of certain medications and relying on generic drugs, and deny procedures. As a result, many private insurance companies will lose significant numbers of members and will be forced out of business. This will shift those patients onto the public option thereby increasing its membership and providing it with more leverage and power to make decisions. So for the majority of Americans, the quality of their healthcare will decrease under this current plan.
I think those concerns would be addressed in the Health Insurance Exchange marketplace. You could write your congresspeople about it. Be sure to tell them you're A Physician.
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
In addition, the public option will not necessarily provide universal healthcare. Just because a cheaper public option exists, it doesn't mean people will sign up for it. Many people simply do not want to pay for healthcare regardless of it's price. There is an estimated 10 million or so Americans who can afford healthcare but choose not to pay for it. For them, many of these people are young and in good health and feel their money is best spent elsewhere rather than healthcare. The know that if they are injured in an acute setting, they can still be treated in the emergency room.
I believe that both congressional versions would require these people to pay an annual fee to enjoy this privilege, but not sure to what or how.
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
A better solution is to remove the public option. A more practical solution is to negotiate with the insurance companies with regards to providing coverage to people with pre-existing conditions (which they have already agreed to do)
good!
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
and to negotiate premiums to enable more Americans to afford healthcare.
I think that would be addressed in the Health Insurance Exchange marketplace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan.
We can institute tort reform by setting stricter guidelines for filing a medical malpractice lawsuit even if we don't want to place caps on punitive damages. I think we all agree that the quality of healthcare in this country is good; it's the cost that is outrageous and many people can't afford it. Instead of dismantling what is good about our healthcare system, why don't we address the specific problems...namely that private insurance is charging too much in premiums.
I think that concern would be addressed in the Health Insurance Exchange marketplace.
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