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the article dates back to 2006, it doesn't matter since they are just hosting it. They not the creator of the article, Mr. Sherlock.
It doesn't matter whether they wrote it or not - the fact is, the general subject matter hosted on the original site you link to says a LOT about the general mental state of the people the site caters too - and clearly a LOT of those folks are "out on the fringe" (putting it politely). The fact is, there is a LOT of wacko wacko stuff on that site (including the article you featured).
And yet your seem to be buying into the SAME type of fear mongering the MOST EXTREME GW folks are pushing.
Ken
Okay, I get that you're taking a question I posted to someone else and focusing on it rather than the topic. So, I have a couple questions for you. Do you think China not buying our treasuries any longer is a good thing, given that they are one of the reasons we're floating right now? Do you think we'll ever have to pay back the debt so many of our politicians have created and added to?
BTW, I don't own an ounce of gold, nor do I plan on purchasing any. I guess I see a difference in my concerns vs the GW crowd, because they are literally buying into it. I'm not.
Well, I guess I own a few ounces of gold, but I'm not planning on melting my jewlery anytime soon.
What are you gonna do now that the welfare state has collapsed? You have no more hardworking taxpayers to mooch off of, like a previous poster said, this article is very prophetic. Several things it has predicted already came true. Do you care that you won't be getting anymore "gubamint" checks in the mail?
Do you even care about what's happening to our economy? Is everything about partisanship to you?
Okay, I get that you're taking a question I posted to someone else and focusing on it rather than the topic. So, I have a couple questions for you. Do you think China not buying our treasuries any longer is a good thing, given that they are one of the reasons we're floating right now? Do you think we'll ever have to pay back the debt so many of our politicians have created and added to?
First of all China IS buying our treasuries. The line about China and the rest of the world not wanting US treasuries is pure unadulterated bullsh*t - and that's my whole point.
China now owns more in US Treasuries than they have EVER owned (1/3 more than they owned last year at this time) and the US Treasury is having little trouble selling US debt. A while back there were a whole series of dumb posts on this board bragging that no one wanted US Treasuries because the Treasury Department had had to raise interest rates on them to around 4% - as if 4% was BIG number.
The fact is, those posters were completely ignorant. They had no clue that even at 4% - it's still an incredibly LOW return the US was having to promise - well below the average for the last 50 year (6%) and massively below the 15% that had to be offered to sell bonds during Reagan years. The fact is, US Treasuries have had no real problem selling - and when the time comes that US Treasuries are not moving at the 3.75% or so they are currently being offered at, the Treasury will simply grant a bit higher interest rate and the sales will pick up.
That time WILL come. What most folks on this board don't seem to understand in the slightest is that US Treasury bonds simply compete with other investments (including the US and foreign stock markets) for buyers. When times are unsettled and the markets are being ground down, buyers around the world flock to US Treasury Bonds as a "safe haven" investment. This is true today just as it's been for decades now. Why do you think US bond rates are so low right now? Because folks have been eager to buy them over the last year or so while world markets were collapsing. During the depths of the market crash the US was able to offer 10 year Bonds at interest rates of under 3% - that's a PUNY return - and yet countries and individuals continued to buy them up - does that sound like a currency no one wants?
Now that the stock markets have turned upwards and economies around the world are showing signs that the Recession has bottomed out, demand for US Treasuries will fall as folks turn to other (higher yeilding - but riskier) investments (such as stocks) - assuming that they are safer now than when the markets were crashing.
This will mean of course that demand for US Treasuries will slip and so the Treasury Department will increase the yeilds to continue to attract buyers. This is the way it has always been (as I said, during the Reagan years we had to raise returns on the bonds to over 15% to attract buyers - did that mean no one wanted the dollar under Reagan?) - No - it simply meant that competition for investors dollars was more fierce because other investment vehicles were giving good returns, so the US Treasuries had to offer better returns too.
The whole "no one wants our dollars" argument is total Bullsh*t unsupported by the facts. It's simply scare tactics used by gold merchants to con idiot investors into buying their product.
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 08-16-2009 at 09:43 PM..
What are you gonna do now that the welfare state has collapsed? You have no more hardworking taxpayers to mooch off of, like a previous poster said, this article is very prophetic. Several things it has predicted already came true. Do you care that you won't be getting anymore "gubamint" checks in the mail?
Do you even care about what's happening to our economy? Is everything about partisanship to you?
No it's about intelligence and common sense - it's not partisan at all.
Things have been rough, but we're at the bottom and a recovery is on it's way. The GDP has already likely started to grow here in the US - just as it's already started to grown in Germany, France and Japan and the monthly job cuts are dropping (down to 1/3 of what they were just 6 months ago (250,000 in July vs 750,000 or so in January).
The only real question now is - how strong will the recovery be?
First of all China IS buying our treasuries. The line about China and the rest of the world not wanting US treasuries is pure unadulterated bullsh*t - and that's my whole point.
China now owns more in US Treasuries than they have EVER owned (1/3 more than they owned last year at this time) and the US Treasury is having little trouble selling US debt. A while back there were a whole series of dumb posts on this board bragging that no one wanted US Treasuries because the Treasury Department had had to raise interest rates on them to around 4% - as if 4% was BIG number.
The fact is, those posters were completely ignorant. They had no clue that even at 4% - it's still an incredibly LOW return the US was having to promise - well below the average for the last 50 year (6%) and massively below the 15% that had to be offered to sell bonds during Reagan years. The fact is, US Treasuries have had no real problem selling - and when the time comes that US Treasuries are not moving at the 3.75% or so they are currently being offered at, the Treasury will simply grant a bit higher interest rate and the sales will pick up.
That time WILL come. What most folks on this board don't seem to understand in the slightest is that US Treasury bonds simply compete with other investments (including the US and foreign stock markets) for buyers. When times are unsettled and the markets are being ground down, buyers around the world flock to US Treasury Bonds as a "safe haven" investment. This is true today just as it's been for decades now. Why do you think US bond rates are so low right now? Because folks have been eager to buy them over the last year or so while world markets were collapsing. During the depths of the market crash the US was able to offer 10 year Bonds at interest rates of under 3% - that's a PUNY return - and yet countries and individuals continued to buy them up - does that sound like a currency no one wants?
Now that the stock markets have turned upwards and economies around the world are showing signs that the Recession has bottomed out, demand for US Treasuries will fall as folks turn to other (higher yeilding - but riskier) investments (such as stocks) - assuming that they are safer now than when the markets were crashing.
This will mean of course that demand for US Treasuries will slip and so the Treasury Department will increase the yeilds to continue to attract buyers. This is the way it has always been (as I said, during the Reagan years we had to raise returns on the bonds to over 15% to attract buyers - did that mean no one wanted the dollar under Reagan?) - No - it simply meant that competition for investors dollars was more fierce because other investment vehicles were giving good returns, so the US Treasuries had to offer better returns too.
The whole "no one wants our dollars" argument is total Bullsh*t unsupported by the facts. It's simply scare tactics used by gold merchants to con idiot investors into buying their product.
Ken
You know, I see that you totally believe what you're saying, and I'm not questioning your intelligence or thought process. There are always two sides to every story, and although you like to throw around the fact you've got it all figured out and the smilie head thumping thing isn't hurting, I wonder if you run your personal budget like the government runs our national budget? If not, why?
The fact is, we are robbing Peter to pay Paul. We operate on a much smaller manufacturing scale than in our heyday. We import most goods, we demand those with a decent living pay for those without one, we berate our businesses and give them every reason to pull out and into other countries. We force our banks to loan money to people who can't pay it back, entice people to go out and buy new cars when their old ones were working fine and they really didn't need to be straddled with another payment. Hundreds of banks a week are going under, the FDIC is on E, we're projecting to throw trillions of dollars onto an already loaded deficit. What part of fiscal responsibility don't you get?
Maybe you aren't about fiscal responsibility, because you're basically saying we're fine. nothing's wrong with our spending/saving/debt. If that's your belief, then so be it, we won't be able to reach a common ground in the way we see the world. But you're in the minority, because people have been crying a river about our spending for a long time now (um, through both party's admins). But just because the OP posts an article that has an advertisment for gold, you get a squirel up you butt and throw a hissy fit because we're all a bunch of falling fools.
I'm wondering if you have politically shaded blinders on. I don't know, as I haven't paid much attention to your posts prior to tonight. But if you are, try to take them off a moment. It won't cost you money to. We don't have to pass a bill or start up a whole new industry for you to buy into. Hell, we're not telling you to buy gold!! In fact, think of us as fools. I certainly don't care.
I guess my next question to you is why is it so hard to be fiscally responsible? And you can't fall back on the rich peole poor people, Democrat vs. Republican, I'm a hateful racist because I want people to die rather than get my tax dollars response. Being fiscally responsible CAN be synonymous with helping people in your community. So give me a more concrete answer, please.
You know, I see that you totally believe what you're saying, and I'm not questioning your intelligence or thought process. There are always two sides to every story, and although you like to throw around the fact you've got it all figured out and the smilie head thumping thing isn't hurting, I wonder if you run your personal budget like the government runs our national budget? If not, why?
The fact is, we are robbing Peter to pay Paul. We operate on a much smaller manufacturing scale than in our heyday. We import most goods, we demand those with a decent living pay for those without one, we berate our businesses and give them every reason to pull out and into other countries. We force our banks to loan money to people who can't pay it back, entice people to go out and buy new cars when their old ones were working fine and they really didn't need to be straddled with another payment. Hundreds of banks a week are going under, the FDIC is on E, we're projecting to throw trillions of dollars onto an already loaded deficit. What part of fiscal responsibility don't you get?
Maybe you aren't about fiscal responsibility, because you're basically saying we're fine. nothing's wrong with our spending/saving/debt. If that's your belief, then so be it, we won't be able to reach a common ground in the way we see the world. But you're in the minority, because people have been crying a river about our spending for a long time now (um, through both party's admins). But just because the OP posts an article that has an advertisment for gold, you get a squirel up you butt and throw a hissy fit because we're all a bunch of falling fools.
I'm wondering if you have politically shaded blinders on. I don't know, as I haven't paid much attention to your posts prior to tonight. But if you are, try to take them off a moment. It won't cost you money to. We don't have to pass a bill or start up a whole new industry for you to buy into. Hell, we're not telling you to buy gold!! In fact, think of us as fools. I certainly don't care.
I guess my next question to you is why is it so hard to be fiscally responsible? And you can't fall back on the rich peole poor people, Democrat vs. Republican, I'm a hateful racist because I want people to die rather than get my tax dollars response. Being fiscally responsible CAN be synonymous with helping people in your community. So give me a more concrete answer, please.
And dude, stop hitting yourself.
LOL
I'm FULLY aware that we are borrowing a ton of money right now - and I'm not in the slightest bit happy about it. I posted MANY times on this board about how Bush was running up the deficit and that I was unhappy about that. The difference was, back then the economy was not in collapse (THAT came later in Bush's time in office) and it was a time we should have been paying DOWN the deficit the way Clinton had - instead he just piled up the debt for no real reason.
I have NO problem running a deficit in times of emergency (as we have now). When your house is on fire you don't quibble about whether or not you can afford to pay for the water needed to put it out - you just bring the water in and put the fire OUT - and worry about paying for it LATER - for the simply reason that if you don't do that, you won't have a house left. The fact is, there are times - such as now, when the economy is on skids - when no one is spending and the banks aren't lending and there is a real danger of everything coming down around you. In times like that the government needs to "prime the pump" with money to get things moving again.
That is exactly what we did late last year with the bank bailouts and it's exactly what we are doing now with the stimulus funds - as is virtually every major country on earth. There is a reason for that - it WORKS - and economists in all those countries know that. When the economy recovers I EXPECT the Administration to pull in spending - but until that time I expect them to spend whatever is necessary to get the economy stabilized and moving again - just as is being done virtually everywhere else on earth.
In regards to buying gold - I'm fully aware that YOU are not telling me to buy gold, but the fact remains that the author of the article in question is doing essentially that. It's all a sales pitch meant to lure in the gullible, foolish and fearful (and IT WORKS). That's pretty much ALWAYS the case with those "gloom and doom" authors - they ALL have a sales agenda. They are all out to make money - and they make money frightening people into buying what they are selling - and when all is said and done and the economy recovers gold prices will collapse just as they did back in 1980 (after a similar "the economy is collapsing" scare propelled gold towards $1,000 an ounce) - and a whole lot of these gold investors are going to lose a whole lot of money when that happens.
It's as simple as that.
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 08-17-2009 at 12:27 AM..
Very prophetic. Many of the things written in the article are coming to pass -- such as China's loss of faith in Treasuries and the Fed printing money to keep interest rates low. I'm already seeing inflation at my local grocery stores. Lord Balfor, there won't be anymore handouts for you when hyperinflation rears its ugly head. I suggest you research the topic with a sober mind.
China continues to buy US Treasuries just fine - and inflation is pretty much non-existent at the money.
I DO expect some inflationary pressure once the recovery get underway, but with the prime rate being so low at the moment (pretty much at zero) the Fed has more room than it's EVER had to maneuver in regards to slowing raising interest rates to quell any inflation and keep it under control.
Yep, you hit the nail on the head. Americans don't want to hear it, but pain is a wonderful educator. The first thing we will discover once our borrowing is done is that we don't have much of an economy outside of our own consumption. We need to export and we need to eliminate whatever prevents us from exporting. Hear that tree huggers, unions and big taxers?
I don't usually agree with you, but for the most part you are right here, but you have to admit, one of the things that makes our products so high is the added cost of employer sponsored health care.
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