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Saggy, surely obama and his "uniquely qualified" team should be held accountable for their erroneous projections, wouldn't you say?
Not on your say-so, not by a long shot. The adminstration's projections were in the same range as, and with six months worth of Monday-morning QB hindsight, divergent from eventual reality to the same degree as, everyone else's. Why is this so hard to grasp? Supreme devotion to naked partisanship getting in the way?
Once you rule out Rushbo and Hannity, and the Beckster, what people were saying was that the adminstration's projections were in the same range as everyone else's. Maybe you just need to listen to a better class of people.
Really saggy, you've become quite the apologist for obama and his failures. You must realize there is a record that obama and you can't run from or revise. We all remember what he said and what others said - that's why his credibility on the matter is down the crapper, that's why people aren't willing to trust and take him at his "word".
The mid-year review recently released of course takes six months worth of additional data into consideration. Had those data magically been available last December, guess what the projections back then would have showed.
He used the rosy numbers to sell his budget - the reality is, he was 30% off. That's not a very good number for that "uniquely qualified" team.
It isn't projecting anything more than someone's stupidity. Either the author was stupid in creating it, or readers were stupid for presuming that it made any actual point.
The author(S) were obama and his team, as they attempted to sell the necessity of the stimulus to a wary public.
Hint: No one projects the present or the past. You project into the future. You use actual data for the present and the past. The fact that you seriously expect that the future will somehow conform to or be constrained by projections of it is just another illustration of the global scale of your general misunderstanding.
How else are we to judge? What has gotten obama in trouble is the fact that REALITY does not come close to what he claimed would be the result of his stimulus.
Based on your logic, we can all forgive bush for his projections that Iraq had WMD, right?
Why would you expect us to pay for it? It isn't like getting a Big Bite down at 7-11, you know. It is the general tendency of this country and most others to use debt to finance large emergency expenditures, of which the stimulus bill is most definitely an example.
The problem was not high debt to begin with. There were certainly ethical complaints over the way different types of debt were being forced upon people in various ways, but there was nothing at all threatening about the simple level of debt. The system came apart instead because a bunch of profiteers were allowed to run the portion of poorly underwritten debt to levels above those through which the system could sustain itself. That's a very different issue. Presently, more debt is the only option that we or any other affected nation (which is pretty much all of them) have to turn to in seeking to repair the massive damage done.
High debt is the problem. Much spending was "credit" or debt spending - both by individuals and the government.
The government does not have money, it confiscates money from the working people who are now stuck with someday having to pay all this back.
Really saggy, you've become quite the apologist for obama and his failures.
No, the failures that I address are yours and they are both glaring and legion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene
You must realize there is a record that obama and you can't run from or revise.
Sadly, you ignore that fact and base your claims instead on events occurring in some alternate universe or other that have no actual bearing upon this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene
We all remember what he said and what others said - that's why his credibility on the matter is down the crapper, that's why people aren't willing to trust and take him at his "word".
Your memory is a veritable sieve with all that you fail to retain being replaced by more manufactured spin and outrage built from pure partisan propaganda.
Some economists warn Barack Obama's economic predictions too optimistic
This piece from July 2009 indicates that conditions were worse over the first half of the year than what everyone's projections had indicated in January. Christene Romer agrees, noting that like everyone else's, the adminstration's mid-year numbers will reflect that new data.
Obama Budget Relies on Rosy Economic Forecasts
This WSJ blog piece from February relies on reporting some from among those cases where the admistration's baseline assumptions were more positive than those used in other projections. It failed to report that all of the major projections were nevertheless within the same range, and betrayed its own reliance upon the data that were actually available at the time by suggesting as its own horror-story scenario the prospect that unemployment might reach a shocking 9% before the recession was over.
Rosy Scenario Hides Irresponsible Spending
This March 2009 blog piece makes charges but raises no specifics except perhaps in noting that the last time we saw growth rates such as those projected was in the mid-80's and mid-90's. The author never bothered to mention that those were also the last two times when the economy was recovering from a major recession.
RNC: Welcome Back Rosy, Have Democrats Traded One Form of Deception for Another
Seriously. This is a press release from the Republican National Committee. If there were any people knowledgeable about economics at the RNC, perhaps we wouldn't have been led into this mess to begin with.
Who's Obama Kidding?
I guess you weren't sharp enough to recognize that this is an Echo Chamber reprint of the blog piece noted second above. Way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene
He used the rosy numbers to sell his budget - the reality is, he was 30% off. That's not a very good number for that "uniquely qualified" team.
While all the other sources are still sticking with the numbers they projected back in December and January, or is it the case that all of their stuff now looks about your 30% worse as well? If there were a burg out there named Brain-Dead Myopiaville, you could get yourself elected mayor of it.
Last edited by saganista; 09-05-2009 at 09:16 AM..
The author(S) were obama and his team, as they attempted to sell the necessity of the stimulus to a wary public.
No, the authors were some one or more assorted spin-spitting ecocomic nincompoops armed with magic-markers and working at a place called innocentbystanders.net. Maybe you should try to be more familiar with the losers you try to use as sources.
Well, you could try being a rational observer. That's certainly one of the things that the real people do that you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene
What has gotten obama in trouble is the fact that REALITY does not come close to what he claimed would be the result of his stimulus.
Again, in the real world that lies outside the box of dim-witted right-wing spin and disinformation, Obama is widely credited with having implemented policies that have stemmed the tide of an encroaching disaster, brought us back in one piece from the precipice of economic doom, and set us on a still somewhat tenative path toward sustained economic recovery. You, of course, cannot allow thoughts such as those to penetrate your brain. That would amount to admitting that you've been wrong about absolutely everything for years, and we couldn't have a thing like that occurring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene
Based on your logic, we can all forgive bush for his projections that Iraq had WMD, right?
Yeah, those were a projection in the sense of Bush's having seen things that weren't really there. All the while with people having better and far more honest information telling him that they weren't really there. Otherwise, there is no comparison between claiming an actual state of the current world and using a projection to learn more about the probabilities of some future state of the world. But then again, how would you be expected to know a thing like that...
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