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you are right pluralism is not working. people are here for the money not the ideals of america.
Money IS the ideal of America. The colonies were started to make food, money, and industrial goods for the "mother country." All of the ideas in the constitution (such as freedom of speech, arms, and overall individualism) already existed in Europe. They were put into our constitution because they were essential for a capitalist society. We broke away from England because of taxes and monetary issues!
wow, I read this whole thread (I need to get a life),
the OP doesn't want foreign languages banned, she just doesn't like it when people speak in a language she doesn't understand because sometimes they use it rudely towards others who may not understand...
that's very similar to what english speakers will do around immigrants that don't understand english (another poster brought that up)
after reviewing all posts, I think we can probably all agree on one thing:
that being rude and disrespetful to each other is a negative thing, whether it's being done in english or spanish or whatever other language...
however, i'm not sure that forcing people to behave respectfully to each other through legal regulations is the way to go in order to solve this issue
by the way, i think most rude behavior towards one another in the US is being done by english speakers...not spanish speakers
many people have said rude things to me in english, and i understood them much better than if they would have said it in a different language that I don't speak...
therefore...logically speaking, the OP needs to include english in her list of languages that she doesn't want people to be speaking rudely in...
it might sound silly for those who didn't read the whole thread like I did, but essentially that's what it was about...
sure people made some excellent points along the way, defending freedom of speech and the right to speak in whatever language they want... alot of it was really good stuff... down here in miami, we speak a lot of spanish and many times we don't pay attention to one or two people who may not understand - mainly cause we're wrapped up in our daily biz of communicating to each other (in spanish). i also enjoy speaking other languages here in public, primarily for practice... would not want anyone to prohibit me from doing that from a legal standpoint...
anyway... yes, perhaps the point of the thread was a bit silly, but the debate was not (mostly)
foundationally, I doubt anyone can truly argue with me what the thing was about ...feelings of insecurity, uncomfortableness, etc...
it's not necessarily about langauge, it's about being respectful and trying to get along together in such a complex society
of course, there was a rather preposterous comment that we have too much freedom here in the states, and we need to control the people even more and impose behavioral limitations on the first amendment (wtf?)... but other than that, a lot of it was quite good..
i would suggest that the op might want to avoid going to miami, though...
and news to older adults, it's never too late to learn a langauge, even if you're not perfect at it, if you practice daily i guarantee you'll be happy with the results
I agree. When I was growing up, everything I heard in school from peers was in Spanish. Its rude and disrespectful for immigrants and their children to speak in languages around Americans that we can't understand. If your going to come here, learn English.
My boyfriend is from China. He speaks 5 languages (Shanghainese, Manderin, Cantonese, Japanese, and English) and the only one I let him speak around me is English.
I think the main problem has been a change in attitude among immigrants. My grandparents came here from Eastern Europe early in the 20th century. Before they even applied for citizenship (and that's a completely different topic for debate!) they found classes to teach them English...because they had the apparently outdated belief that you couldn't really participate in American society if you didn't speak the language.
Things are very obviously different today. If you walk along Brighton Beach Avenue here in Brooklyn (the center of a large Russian immigrant community), sometimes you can't even tell that you're in the United States; all the signs are in Russian. I object to this, but I recognize reality when it stares me in the face: until there's political will to change things, things will not change.
I agree. When I was growing up, everything I heard in school from peers was in Spanish. Its rude and disrespectful for immigrants and their children to speak in languages around Americans that we can't understand. If your going to come here, learn English.
My boyfriend is from China. He speaks 5 languages (Shanghainese, Manderin, Cantonese, Japanese, and English) and the only one I let him speak around me is English.
This is a joke?
If not, if you ever happened to marry your Chinese boyfriend, would you forbid him from speaking Chinese to your children (if you two had any) so they'd be bilingual?
I think the main problem has been a change in attitude among immigrants. My grandparents came here from Eastern Europe early in the 20th century. Before they even applied for citizenship (and that's a completely different topic for debate!) they found classes to teach them English...because they had the apparently outdated belief that you couldn't really participate in American society if you didn't speak the language.
Things are very obviously different today. If you walk along Brighton Beach Avenue here in Brooklyn (the center of a large Russian immigrant community), sometimes you can't even tell that you're in the United States; all the signs are in Russian. I object to this, but I recognize reality when it stares me in the face: until there's political will to change things, things will not change.
Well said; much to ponder here. If one attempts to judge others by his own behavior, it would seem to me that failing to learn the 'host' language of your new home...and failing to make an effort to USE it whenever possible...IS a form of disrespect. I know if I did that, I'd feel I was being disrespectful to the country that had 'taken me in', regardless of what the law required. It's just plain rude, at some level.
Yet, as you say, respect is very much something that must be EARNED....and if "we", (as a society) allow such 'disrespect' to pass without notice, that's what will happen. A country that requires NOTHING of its 'new arrivals' should hardly be shocked when they sometimes see no reason to assimilate.
I think we could ask a LOT more of our immigrants, and we'd not only still be a much sought after 'destination', we might even be more respected. But that's a subject for a whole other thread. Bottom line? When the invitation goes out to "come as you are", some people will be perfectly happy to do just that....come as they are, and stay that way. It's up to the host to 'set the tone'.
Hi, I just wanted to say that I have read many of these threads throughout the last few months and I am appalled by what I have read. I have commented on many controversial subjects. I couldn't find the thread that was discussing the problems with racial issues and barriers in Southern California so I decided to start a new thread. I believe there isn't as much of a racial issue but a "language issue" and I believe if we ALL returned to our roots and where this Country started we would all get along better. Respect is the key word here.
I believe that those who move to this Country have the right to do so but it should be required that they learn the English language and that the English Language should be the primary language. I believe that this Country was founded on the English language and it should be respected. I have seen as a former resident of California that the language of this Country is NOT respected at all. That other languages are used to intimidate those who speak only English and now it is required in many arena's that secondary languages be taught, learned and spoken. This is a boundary issue and a disrespect and should never have been tolerated in the first place . As far as I am concerned there is a little too much freedom in this Country... I love all people, races and in my eyes all people are equal but I think we have a major problem. Hopefully these words do not bring offense to anyone but an awareness of how others might be feeling who speak the English language as their primary source of communication . Please read an archive that I found that was stated many years ago by one of our respected leaders: I believe it has not been followed. How sad...
"The year is 1907, one hundred and 2 years ago".
'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.' Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Shall we all bow to the queen too? Or maybe you can dictate what people wear also?
sometimes i wish i was one of those fobby types who don't understand what is being said. sometimes i wish i didn't understand the crap people say because there is so much ugliness. i've noticed that the better you speak or if you speak with no accent, the more people are disrespectful toward you because they feel that you don't deserve any respect etc or you are bossed around because you must "know" your place if you understand the language. if you speak perfect english, americans treat you worse because they get too lax, insinuating, exploitive, bossy and rude. this has happened to me way too many times that i've ended up adopting some of it myself. it's pretty horrible that if you speak well, then they just see you as someone they can more easily insult but a fobby person who doesn't understand all the idiosyncrasies or meanings behind american body language or even language is ignored not because they respect them but because they will not be understood by them. that's why unless you only deal with the most professional people, speaking as anyone else just gets you more ill treatment and attitude but someone who can't understand as much doesn't have to put up with it.
so in many ways, americans are derogatory toward their own language or those who speak it well which is disgusting. it's like hearing dirty words and wishing you couldn't understand them.
it's america that has a contradictory but unseen double standard when it comes to their own language. if you understand the language and others know you understand, they use it against you. if someone doesn't, they leave them alone because it's pointless. that's pretty nasty and gives an impression that they don't want you in america. pretty much it's anti-assimilation message i've noticed about america. they simply do not want foreigners here but they think they do. it usually goes like this. one race may prefer a certain race but not another race etc and vice versa so everyone thinks everyone else is for assimilation, americanization or open to other immigrants but it's actually people holding their own personal prejudices. of course there would be immigrants but not everyone wants the same type, ethnicity, race or from the same country etc. it's not as consistent as someone who just doesn't want any immigrants etc and that's why there is so much contradiction as in racism in america but still a country that seems to not be against immigration. they are not because that would be insulting their friend of whatever background etc. a person may not have a problem with blacks but may not like asians etc or vice versa and any other combinations with other races as well.
By the OPs standards, Americans had better not travel anywhere.
Few speak even a bit of other languages and you can usually pick out Americans from all groups.
As others have pointed out, Americans should learn proper English before they complain about the language use of others.
Last edited by chielgirl; 11-05-2009 at 10:57 PM..
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