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That other languages are used to intimidate those who speak only English and now it is required in many arena's that secondary languages be taught, learned and spoken. This is a boundary issue and a disrespect and should never have been tolerated in the first place . As far as I am concerned there is a little too much freedom in this Country...
First, I don't understand this concept of English speakers being intimidated by other languages (or by others speaking those other languages). In what way are you intimidated? Do you get anxious or irritated if you hear 2 people speaking to each other in a foreign language in public? Do you feel that is rude?
Second, whenever someone says there's too much freedom here, you can pretty much guarantee they mean the excess freedom is a freedom for people to do something they dislike. You never hear these people complain about the freedoms they themselves enjoy as being "too much freedom". It's always in the context of what they wish to deprive someone else of.
Finally, I'd think someone who is so respectful of English as "America's language" and who disapproves of others who don't know how to speak it, would know that the word is "inappropriate", not "unappropriate".
Un`ap`pro´pri`ate a.1.Inappropriate; unsuitable.2.Not appropriated.v. t.1.To take from private possession; to restore to the possession or right of all; as, to unappropriate a monopoly.
Sorry but the word unappropriate is a word. Check out any English dictionary...
And also, yes I do think in certain situations that it is rude to speak in another language in front of someone who doesn't understand what is spoken. Haven't you been taught that one should not whisper in someone's ear in front of someone? Or is that common courtesy not taught in other countries? I am not sure about what you where taught but I was taught in school and at home that whispering is rude. And why is it rude? Because the person who can't hear (understand) is usually being talked about. RUDE!! Common sense says for the respect of others to go somewhere in private and speak to one another if you feel it will offend someone.
My whole point to the idea of making English the primary language is not to end other languages but to help us all get along... I really think there are just too many boundaries being crossed and too much disrespect going on. What ever happened to compassion for other human beings anyway?
And deprivation? I never said you couldn't speak your language.. What deprivation are you speaking of. There are way more privileges for foreignors in this Country than any where else in the World. I don't see deprivation at all... Quite the contrary...
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo
First, I don't understand this concept of English speakers being intimidated by other languages (or by others speaking those other languages). In what way are you intimidated? Do you get anxious or irritated if you hear 2 people speaking to each other in a foreign language in public? Do you feel that is rude?
Second, whenever someone says there's too much freedom here, you can pretty much guarantee they mean the excess freedom is a freedom for people to do something they dislike. You never hear these people complain about the freedoms they themselves enjoy as being "too much freedom". It's always in the context of what they wish to deprive someone else of.
Finally, I'd think someone who is so respectful of English as "America's language" and who disapproves of others who don't know how to speak it, would know that the word is "inappropriate", not "unappropriate".
The word unappropriate is in the English dictionary but whatever... Inappropriate, unappropriate...you get what I am talking about..
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobE
I believe that english should be the everyday language for government business, but what folks as individuals choose to speak to each other is nobody's business.
This subject was mentioned in an earlier thread so I am repeating myself, but I have never heard two or more Americans speak anything other than english to each other when I lived in Asia. Kinda inconsiderate of them, right? Or not.
This is way... of topic. I never said to outlaw or ban other countries.. Go back to the beginning post. And I also agree that it is very rude for people to make fun of someone who doesn't know English very well. I have never heard of that and if someone was doing it in front of me you can believe that I would object. You are missing the point of my post and dear Mr. Roosevelt... go back and re-read the 1st post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Smith
American etiquette? Is this somehow different that etiquette anywhere else?? I agree that it's stupid and impolite to speak about someone in front of their face in a language they don't understand, but this is no justification for "outlawing" non-English languages.
How many times do English speakers do the same thing by way of nuances, double entendres, and so on? I've seen it done so many times. English speakers making fun of some poor guy who doesn't yet know English well enough to understand the language's enormous propensity for double meanings, making him the butt of some office or workplace joke. It's not funny, but the English-only crowd at the water cooler laughs up a storm. That's just as rude, wouldn't you say?
So what's next, "outlawing" sub texts and double meanings if an ESL person is in the room? Come on! Deal with the behavior. Lambasting language usage doesn't deal with the issue. Manners and rude behavior transcend language.
First of all, try living where I'm at, in Cerritos, CA. I grew up here and went to Cerritos HS. There was literally one click that had all the white kids in it, mixed with a few other cultures. If you weren't in this particular click, there were separate Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Philippino clicks. On the "playground", these clicks basically spoke their own language and didn't let people that weren't of their own race into their circle of friends. I found this unacceptable. I'm white. I'm not racist. I find it unacceptable that even 40 years after MLK Jr gave his I have a dream speech that we will have to put up with racism. It's like MLK Jr and Rosa Parks went through all that for nothing. People still voluntarily segregate themselves and it has to stop! I thought we were united we stand. I guess not, particularly when you have Chinese people in the corner speaking their language and in another corner, mexicans, Japanese and so forth. We aren't so united after all, are we? I wish we were.
I also think that the extent of our freedom is completely unacceptable, as well. We need more control. In my opinion, our freedom is still allowing racism to occur. Why can't we force people to learn English if they wish to become a citizen? Why the hell does the DMV have to print driving manuals in multiple languages? Wasn't our Constitution written in English?? Come on, I don't think there were foreigners around in 1776 to interpret the Declaration of Independence in 20 different languages.
Oh and to whoever it was that said something about English being a requirement to work at this present time, that's false. Where I work, a company is hired for custodial services. Most of these employees do not speak English at all. Whenever I call a custodian, I have to call one of my colleagues that speak Spanish to interpret my needs. Is it annoying? Absolutely. Seems like any Hotel/Casino I've stayed at in Las Vegas, NV has spanish-speaking maids. I have to point to tell them what i want because of the language barrier.
Further testimony about this. I've been in a few bars recently. One of them, a group of African Americans showed up. Not one person in their group wasn't African American. Another group, was Korean, only. In another bar, this one actually being in Tustin, CA, there were probably 2-3 different asian groups. I don't know which ethnicity they were, specifically, but there wasn't one person in these groups that was not from there ethnic background. Really, this is very disturbing.
I've never been to another country, but I'm wondering what other countries are like. Do they have things in other languages, too or just in certain, 'touristy' parts? Is our own American culture losing any value because we're conforming to these foreign standards? That might be something to think about.
I agree that we must not adhere so quickly to these request of putting so many forms of literature in so many languages.
I'd hate to admit it, but assimilation will NEVER happen. There are some foreigners out there that legitimately want it to happen, but it never will. I was at work, an elderly lady brought her son into my work. The son lives in Omaha, NB. She was trying to get her son to move out to Cerritos, CA. They are Chinese. He was against moving out here because there's "nothing but Asians." Those were his words, not mine.
Assimilation is 2-way street, my friend...
Immigrants have to feel like they are accepted and have a stake in the society as a whole for widespread assimilation and integration is to occur. Even now, alot of ethnic minorities, when speaking of "Americans", do not include themselves in the category and only include whites (and sometimes blacks).
Unlike in the past with European immigrants, assimilating today's immigrants from largely Third World countries is going to be much, much harder for a variety reasons such as racial differences, skin color, more widely divergent cultural dissimilarities to Euro backgrounds, and, in Mexicans' case, a geographical proximity to their homeland....
Nice Teddy [Roosevelt].
Do we have any more room on shampoo/conditioner bottles to add another language ? What would it be next? Chinese?
I've opened up radio/accessory packages to find printed pamphlets not one but two or three, sometimes more. One is for Spanish (of course),
one may be German, or Italian, or Dutch, or,.... I suppose it's not as
bad as putting it all on just one sheet, so small that you need a magnifiying glass. And, they wonder why we don't read the instructions
True that you can't dictate how people converse on a personal level. There is an irritation to hearing a movie at the theater being translated loudly to someone behind me, though.
It's petty to be bothered by overhearing foreign languages in grocery stores & on the street - I'm guilty of that pettiness at times.
When I read about French speaking Quebecans feeling unfairly discriminated against, I feel for them. Yet, I feel rancor at certain people here for having to accomodate them in the same way. It's petty.
We're just human. It must be an instinctive rivalry that drives us to be so divisive. I hate sharing my country with people I feel are unappreciative or unfairly taking advantage of us. That isn't necessarily petty but it is a feeling of wanting to protect our resources... And then again, we're just human.
It is wierd when you go to the DMV & there are... people from south of the border cheating together on their exams (LA). I saw that back in the day of written multiple choice exams. Maybe it's all computerized now. So maybe I"m blowing hot air for nothing about that.
Here's a true story that miffed me. My daughter was in 4th grade. She wrote an essay that was part of a regional competition in the South Bay. At a parent teacher conference, the teacher showed it to me. I couldn't believe my kid wrote it. She never speaks that concisely. It really baffled me how well done it was. Apparently she had focused super hard on the guidelines for the writing & it just turned out really well.
Then the moment of clarity was delivered. The teacher informed me that my daughter would have won the competition, if not for this other submission. I thought the competition had to do with composition, grammar & clarity...
The submission was from a foreign national. From China. The submission was TRANSLATED into ENGLISH. I was... furious but there was nothing for me to do. It would have been inappropriate to say anything. I did say I didn't think it was right but I didn't go on about it.
It's not like I pushed my daughter or had any grandiose expectations. But when it came down like this, I was wierded out.
What would you think if this had happened with one of your children? I don't even remember if this involved any kind of reward like a scholarship or just recognition. I was seeing red for days.
Maybe I"m wrong. Maybe it was fair that a foreign & translated submission won. But it freaked me out.
Translated by a very intelligent adult that can change bad spelling and sentence structure? Outrageous.
How monolinguals will survive in the XXIth Century?
Those is favour of "English only" live in the past.
They live in a parochial Nation-Continent gratified by their ignorance of the world.
They retrench to old and non-existing values because they fear globalization.
The can't understand that the U.S. is not the center of the world anymore.
Europeans once shared such a parochial frame of mind instilled by failed empires, but now you need at least three languages in any Western European country. Why should the U.S. be different?
The U.S. still is a rich and enormous nation capable of surviving decades without change thanks to their internal market and resources, but the U.S. is not alone anymore in the world.
What's wrong with foreign languages?
Immigrants coming to the U.S. will retain their language because they know that they WILL NEED IT.
Had descendants of Germans, Polish and Italians preserved their language, the U.S. would now be a stronger country.
This becomes a major problem when public places are geared to Spanish ONLY. Case in point:
I walked into Target several months ago, over the intercom there was a Spanish announcement, not even followed up with a English translation! The building could have been on fire, or worse a REALLY good sale but I would never have known.
A Payless Shoe Store down the street from where I work, you go into the store...all signs are in Spanish, no English.
I called Pizza downtown to order pizza for some of my customers, couldn't get ANYONE (not even the manager) that could speak English...so couldn't place an order.
Hollywood Video down from my house has a parking sign, all in Spanish...WHAT THE *** DOES IT MEAN???
And when almost half your billboards are in Spanish that's when you realize the tables are turning.
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Quite the contrary...
