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I been out of school for several years and am curious if the Pledge of Allegiance is still recited every morning in your school. If it is, I like to hear from the teachers and, if you don't mind, an answer to these 5 questions:
1. How many students participate..?
2. Of the students who do not participate, what are they doing when others are ..?
3. Has the Pledge ever been recited in a language other than English..?
4. Have parents come to you and stated their child will not participate..?
I been out of school for several years and am curious if the Pledge of Allegiance is still recited every morning in your school. If it is, I like to hear from the teachers and, if you don't mind, an answer to these 5 questions:
1. How many students participate..?
2. Of the students who do not participate, what are they doing when others are ..?
3. Has the Pledge ever been recited in a language other than English..?
4. Have parents come to you and stated their child will not participate..?
5. Has any other flag been pledged to..?
1. Pretty much all of them.
2. They just stand. The don't recite or put their hand over their heart.
3. Not that I know of in our school.
4. No.
5. No.
I'm fully aware that reciting the pledge is a unifying act. I don't care though as I think group membership is a good thing. I kind of like it. It's a clear line that starts the school day. And a reminder that freedom isn't free.
I been out of school for several years and am curious if the Pledge of Allegiance is still recited every morning in your school. If it is, I like to hear from the teachers and, if you don't mind, an answer to these 5 questions:
1. How many students participate..?
2. Of the students who do not participate, what are they doing when others are ..?
3. Has the Pledge ever been recited in a language other than English..?
4. Have parents come to you and stated their child will not participate..?
5. Has any other flag been pledged to..?
Yes, since 1998 all schools in our county are required to begin the day with the Pledge. It is preceeded by a moment of silence.
1. All of my students participate.
2. See #1
3. Yes, it was for a few years, but that is because we are a language immersion school (a portion of our elementary students take science and math in a foreign language). The pledge was said in the immersion language and in English. We are still an immersion school, but it is only said in English now.
4. No.
5. No.
I'm not a teacher but have been waiting for teachers to reply just to learn more. Kudos for interesting reads.
As a kid, I refused to say the pledge of allegiance (from about 4th grade onward) or put my hand on my heart when it was said. I stood for it, though. I can't tell you how many awkward conversations that lead to, but none of it was provoked by my mother who was about as patriotic as someone could be. She used to raise money for fallen soldiers or fire fighters and you could always find one of her vehicles with an American flag bumper sticker on it lol
Looking back on it, I'm glad I did that. I can't say exactly what all my thoughts or opinions were about it when I was younger as they have fallen out of memory, but 3 of my uncles had died in WWII and my father fought in Vietnam, so it wasn't for a lack of interest. Since I can remember though, I never liked the idea of internalizing nationalism - in simplest terms, I never felt "country" made us who were were.
Now that I am older, I keep the same sentiments. I won't talk to my children about this, though, because I want them to come to their own conclusions, but as both a history major and buff, I'm sure that in their education, examples of parallel's to the Pledge will come up. If my child wanted or didn't want to say the Pledge, I'd have no problem either way.
---
My question to all the teachers is has there been a child like me in any of your classes?
I'm not a teacher but have been waiting for teachers to reply just to learn more. Kudos for interesting reads.
As a kid, I refused to say the pledge of allegiance (from about 4th grade onward) or put my hand on my heart when it was said. I stood for it, though. I can't tell you how many awkward conversations that lead to, but none of it was provoked by my mother who was about as patriotic as someone could be. She used to raise money for fallen soldiers or fire fighters and you could always find one of her vehicles with an American flag bumper sticker on it lol
Looking back on it, I'm glad I did that. I can't say exactly what all my thoughts or opinions were about it when I was younger as they have fallen out of memory, but 3 of my uncles had died in WWII and my father fought in Vietnam, so it wasn't for a lack of interest. Since I can remember though, I never liked the idea of internalizing nationalism - in simplest terms, I never felt "country" made us who were were.
Now that I am older, I keep the same sentiments. I won't talk to my children about this, though, because I want them to come to their own conclusions, but as both a history major and buff, I'm sure that in their education, examples of parallel's to the Pledge will come up. If my child wanted or didn't want to say the Pledge, I'd have no problem either way.
---
My question to all the teachers is has there been a child like me in any of your classes?
I never did agree to pledging my allegiance. I guess that I did not feel that I should pledge anything to anyone when I was not yet an adult. I di did not think that a child should be forced to agree to stand for something or face punishment. I am more concerned as an adult since I read an article about a teacher being forced to remove flags from the walls of her classroom. It sounded a little communist to me. I looked the meaning up of allegiance just to get a exact picture of all the different meanings.
1. loyalty to ruler or state: a subject’s or citizen’s loyalty to a ruler or state, or the duty of obedience and loyalty owed by a subject or citizen
2. devoted support: loyalty to or support for a particular person, cause, or group
3. feudal obligation: the feudal obligation of vassals to their liege lord
1. There is no reason a child should have to pledge their loyalty to their rulers in our country. It should be the other way around.
2. This steps on individual freedom and teachs children that having different ideas than the cause in which they have no chose to be part of is normal and acceptable
3. We do not live in a medieval social system.
1. All of them participate. They remind me if I forget. I translate it into kid-friendly language at the beginning of the year so they have a very basic idea of what it means.
2. If they don't want to say it, I wouldn't make them. I do insist they stand and not fool around (shake their booty, make faces, otherwise seek negative attention). That's just basic respectful behavior.
3. No, we recite it in English though if I knew some of the Spanish words and felt it would help them understand the concepts better I would translate it.
4. No
5. Not at the school I'm currently at. At my previous school, where 98% of the kids were Latino and the vast majority of those Mexican, the Mexican flag was displayed too and I remember one cultural event where it was pledged.
Personally the Pledge isn't particularly meaningful to me (and I really don't like the added-on "under God" part) but I do feel it is important to model respectful behavior for something that is important to a lot of people.
I'm not a teacher but have been waiting for teachers to reply just to learn more. Kudos for interesting reads.
As a kid, I refused to say the pledge of allegiance (from about 4th grade onward) or put my hand on my heart when it was said. I stood for it, though. I can't tell you how many awkward conversations that lead to, but none of it was provoked by my mother who was about as patriotic as someone could be. She used to raise money for fallen soldiers or fire fighters and you could always find one of her vehicles with an American flag bumper sticker on it lol
Looking back on it, I'm glad I did that. I can't say exactly what all my thoughts or opinions were about it when I was younger as they have fallen out of memory, but 3 of my uncles had died in WWII and my father fought in Vietnam, so it wasn't for a lack of interest. Since I can remember though, I never liked the idea of internalizing nationalism - in simplest terms, I never felt "country" made us who were were.
Now that I am older, I keep the same sentiments. I won't talk to my children about this, though, because I want them to come to their own conclusions, but as both a history major and buff, I'm sure that in their education, examples of parallel's to the Pledge will come up. If my child wanted or didn't want to say the Pledge, I'd have no problem either way.
---
My question to all the teachers is has there been a child like me in any of your classes?
Yes, I had one last year. I had to make her stand. Fortunately, she didn't fight me on that.
I've never considered this internalizing country but rather a statement of solidarity and respect. We stand together. Well, most of us stand together. Some prefer not to stand with the rest and that is their perrogative in this country. I'm saddened our president is one of them.
To me, saying the pledge is a reminder that freedom isn't free. I say it in honor of those who have fallen and to show I stand united with my fellow citizens. I also say it because others may take offense if I don't. I would never want to offend the family of a fallen soldier by my actions. I'm free because of them. So even if the flag and the pledge meant nothing to me, I'd still put my hand over my heart and say the pledge. I think I owe that much respect to the fallen and their families. Having a friend whose father died in the service I'm aware how much it can hurt the child of a fallen soldier when others diss the flag and country. They are what her father gave his life for. She needs that to be worth something.
Little gestures can mean a lot. Honestly, it doesn't mean that much to me. It's a gesture, but seeing Obama refuse to place his hand over his heart or say the pledge bothers me.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-21-2009 at 08:39 AM..
1. loyalty to ruler or state: a subject’s or citizen’s loyalty to a ruler or state, or the duty of obedience and loyalty owed by a subject or citizen
2. devoted support: loyalty to or support for a particular person, cause, or group
3. feudal obligation: the feudal obligation of vassals to their liege lord
1. There is no reason a child should have to pledge their loyalty to their rulers in our country. It should be the other way around.
2. This steps on individual freedom and teachs children that having different ideas than the cause in which they have no chose to be part of is normal and acceptable
3. We do not live in a medieval social system.
You overlook pledging loyalty to your country--it doesn't have to be to a particular "ruler" or government or whatever.
You overlook pledging loyalty to your country--it doesn't have to be to a particular "ruler" or government or whatever.
Why is it necessary for a child to pledge their allegiance to our country or anyone for that matter? They are in school to learn about all countries, cultures, the way governements run in different countries--what works and doesn't from each, the history of the world from multiple viewpoints, not just that of our country. It is sad that this does not happen. There is NO reason a child needs to pledge their allegiance to any country unless they are being prepared to be sent to fight in war or being asked to protect their country in some way. Since this is not neccessary for kids, it would be important for them to learn the pledge and to know the history behind it but to recite it every day in school---it brings pictures of Chinese children reciting communist brain washing pledges. It leaves me feeling uneasy.
There is also no reason a child should be forced to stand for something they do not believe in. It is not about respect, it is about allowing them to be who they are and not trying to force them to give up their right to do so.
His excuse was that he was taught you place your hand over your heart for the pledge (which he does) and that you sing for the anthem. Which is what I thought too.
What I make of that action is that he shows respect for the country he leads.
Funny how people at the ballgames I attend seem to know this.
As a politician, who would be putting their best foot forward, I still don't get standing there with your hands folded when everyone else has their hand over their heart. If I"m standing in a room doing one thing and eveyrone else is doing another, I kind of start questioning whether or not I have it right.
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