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I actually worked for a big pharma company for 15 years in R&D so I am pretty up on how the whole process works. There are very few new drugs because it takes years to have a new compound hit the market. It costs millions to even produce the compound never mind the lab testing and the clinical trials. I am not saying that drug companies are perfect.
I agree that there are very few real new drugs, but there are a lot of remakes, which are not really new drugs at all...just have a new name so to evade the patent running out.
I agree that there are very few real new drugs, but there are a lot of remakes, which are not really new drugs at all...just have a new name so to evade the patent running out.
I'm sorry but you are just wrong. The FDA sets the guidelines for when a drug can be considered "new" enough to get a new patent. If the drug is changed enough it gets one if it is not it doesn't. Some significant changes have to be made to get a new patent issued. All of which costs the drug companies a lot of money to improve them. They have to basically go through every testing required as if it were a new drug.
That's not how his post read to me- in that your side vs his side. He simply pointed out that, again, the premise of the OP was off the mark, which you seem to agree with btw.
I would be very surprised if you were familiar with pharma R&D. Do you work in the industry?
What's difficult is that the public understands so little about an industry they are so dependent upon. Sure, there will be improvements upon drugs that are re-marketed. For example, we all know about horse pills that have to be taken 8 times a day. There are several varying reasons for this. It can be a toxicity issue, a solubility issue, permeability, metabolism pass, lack luster formulation, a million things. And sure, down the line a functional group will be added to this or that molecule and whala! Improved permeability. You don't need to take the stupid pill 8 times a day. Now, it's only needed 4 times a day or whatever. That can take years to figure out. And those years encompass a lot of work, where animal testing and clinical trials are just a drop in the bucket.
Sure, the drug has the same target, but it's easier on the patient. There is work like this being done all the time. All the little things that would never cross your mind.
The fact of the matter is that you probably have no idea how much money is spent in R&D. For every one drug or improved upon compound that reaches the market, hundreds of thousands have gone down the pipe line. And it's not just synthesizing new chemical entities that cost money. It's not just figuring out how to avoid toxicity that costs millions. It's developing new methods in order to develop research.
For example, some antibiotics result in phospholipidosis. The game doesn't begin and end with figuring out how to prevent a drug from causing lipid accumulation in a cell, but figuring out how to screen for it at the very beginning. You can use light scattering, dyes, surface tension, whatever. All of these methods, which are being investigated every day, involve instrumentation to detect, scientists to maintain, scientists to develop and test, and lots of failures. There really isn't a way to break down R&D for a particular drug that I can think of.
It's all very complicated, that's for sure. It's a massive undertaking. Don't get me wrong, I think it's problematic that share holders, who don't play any role in R&D other than collecting a check, largley reap the benefits. But, your rhetoric is too simple.
Your rhetoric is too condescending. I don't know everything nor do say that I do, but I do know how to read. Here is an article that I have read from a person who does know something about the subject. Former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine and Harvard Professor.
Of course you did not address the most basic problem with the drug industry...lack of competition. We are forbidden by our own government to buy the exact same product from Canada, UK or Israel which could be purchased at a much lower cost. I know these countries are known to be big sellers of killer drugs.
I'm talking about the health care town hall protests here.
No, you are trying to to make a false claim that all these healthcare protests and town halls were paid for by special interest. I say false because I know it to be absolutely untrue. Now I'm not saying someone hasn't funded something here and there, but come on, look at your own parties massive TV campaign. They are buying up airtime by the hour so they can try to convince everyone that the healthcare bill is wonderful. And news flash, Big Pharma doesn't stand to lose a thing with this transition. They are still going to keep charging the same prices for their medicine as they always did. Only now, they have a ready source of constant income all coming from one source. The government. And the government will be getting that money through one source, the people.
Nothing about this sounds detrimental to Big Pharma or anyone else that is a part of the healthcare industry. This plan is not a healthcare reform bill, it is an insurance reform bill. And the only thing really happening is a change in providers. Nothing will change for Big Pharma, in fact, they stand to come out of this with big smiles on their faces. So please, stop grasping at straws and realize these protests and meetings are not paid for by your local pharmacy. There is no cost to a protest other than getting a permit. And there certainly aren't thousands of Big Pharma employees out there rounding us all up for the next protest. We hear about them, and we go, because we don't want a government mandated health plan.
We believe it should be left in the realm of personal choice and personal freedom. And our numbers are growing everyday. In fact, I am pretty sure we outnumber those who support this bill. But don't worry, your guys are going to push it through anyway, because this administration doesn't care about representing those who did not vote for them. And that is fine, as long as they are ready for the fall that comes next election. And the repeal that will shortly follow.
Last edited by Reads2MUCH; 08-21-2009 at 04:08 AM..
Your rhetoric is too condescending. I don't know everything nor do say that I do, but I do know how to read. Here is an article that I have read from a person who does know something about the subject. Former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine and Harvard Professor.
Of course you did not address the most basic problem with the drug industry...lack of competition. We are forbidden by our own government to buy the exact same product from Canada, UK or Israel which could be purchased at a much lower cost. I know these countries are known to be big sellers of killer drugs.
If you have an issue with being able to buy drugs from other countries take it up with the government not pharma companies. They have no say in the matter. There are over 20 large pharma companies in the US, there is no monopoly. Who exactly should be in the mix that is not. You can choose drugs from Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, Aventis, Johnson & Johnson, Roche, Baxter, Eli Lilly, Sanofi, Bayer, Glaxo, etc. How many more do you need?
They are pretty good to their employees. Well, I have to get myself to bed so I can get up early and hit the bench.
Yes they are. I have ZERO complaints about how I was treated when I was there. My husband works for Johnson & Johnson and they are great to their employees.
If you have an issue with being able to buy drugs from other countries take it up with the government not pharma companies. They have no say in the matter. There are over 20 large pharma companies in the US, there is no monopoly. Who exactly should be in the mix that is not. You can choose drugs from Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, Aventis, Johnson & Johnson, Roche, Baxter, Eli Lilly, Sanofi, Bayer, Glaxo, etc. How many more do you need?
Well that was kind of the whole reason for the OP was it not. The PHarma is the single largest lobby in the United States. They spent a record 167 million in 2007. They have congress and the president in their back pocket. That is the reason you don't see health care legislation regarding pharma. Until you can control their ability to lobby, it won't make a hill of beans who you put into office. They own them all.
Well that was kind of the whole reason for the OP was it not. The PHarma is the single largest lobby in the United States. They spent a record 167 million in 2007. They have congress and the president in their back pocket. That is the reason you don't see health care legislation regarding pharma. Until you can control their ability to lobby, it won't make a hill of beans who you put into office. They own them all.
No, you are trying to to make a false claim that all these healthcare protests and town halls were paid for by special interest. I say false because I know it to be absolutely untrue. Now I'm not saying someone hasn't funded something here and there, but come on, look at your own parties massive TV campaign. They are buying up airtime by the hour so they can try to convince everyone that the healthcare bill is wonderful.
Thanks for the civil tone but...why the 'No'?
You're agreeing with me that 'someone' payed 'something'....then doing the same thing he was...saying 'well the Dems did it too'.
Why can't we pick apart one party at a time on separate threads?
It would stop tons of overlapping threads and keep the bs to a minimum.
Seems like every time a hot issue comes up (and what political issue isn't 'hot') it immeadiately gets derailed and therefore becomes impossible to rationally discuss here.
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