If we had no health insurance companies... (Congress, salaries, ethical)

[PurpleLove08]

Would we be better off?

You would pay less at the doctor because you'd be paying in cash or by check, you could probably negotiate your medical bills to a lower amount because it would be YOU paying and not the insurance company....

Sure we could all have SOME health insurance but it would be for a catastrophic event like cancer, a heart attack, or a bad car accident.

Local doctors are opting out of insurance-based medicine : Local News : Ventura County Star

Cash Only Medical Practice | White Paper (http://www.hippocratespublishing.com/medicalpracticewhitepaper.php - broken link)

Doctors seek cash when insurance doesn't pay | insurance, gersh, patients, doctors, office - News - OCRegister.com

http://www.ethicalhealthpartnerships...octorfees.html

There is one medical practice I heard about where people pay a yearly fee and they can see the doctor as much as they want.

[HappyTexan]

Take a look at cosmetic surgery which is not covered. Prices have remained affordable over the years.

Proof that something like that can work.

[Danno3314]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

Take a look at cosmetic surgery which is not covered. Prices have remained affordable over the years.

Proof that something like that can work.

I don't know if affordable is the right word. It's a luxury, that a lot of people couldn't afford but, those that are inclined to use it, can easily afford it. It hasn't had the increases in cost that other medical care has had (percentage wise). They're able to by pass a lot of the expenses their patients go through with other medical care, while getting a large cash payment from each patient they see generally. They do so much in their office now so, it avoids the hospital or out-patient facility bill that normally dwarfs the surgeons bill. Look at what a primary care physician goes through compared to them.....the staff, the medical billing and all for a lot of payments under $100 after the discount...they have to do a lot of volume. Plastic surgeons are in a much more unique situation, they don't need to get patients referred to them like a specialist needs to and they don't have to refer patients out to specialists like primary care physicians need to.

[oberon_1]

Originally Posted by PurpleLove08

You would pay less at the doctor because you'd be paying in cash or by check, you could probably negotiate your medical bills to a lower amount because it would be YOU paying and not the insurance company....

I don't get it. How can a single person negotiate anything? What leverage do you have?
For example, most people are in this position with dental care. Can you negotiate with you dentist?
That being said, there might be something in working directly with a doctor. The administrative layer can be removed, simplifying things and lowering costs for the doctor. For a young healthy person, it may be cheaper then paying insurance premiums.

[GOPATTA2D]

I had dental insurance years ago that had a $40 co-pay. Dental insurance has always been less generous than health insurance. My dentist charged around $65 if I remember. At check-out one visit he told me that if I wanted to just give him the $40 he would change to the bill to $40 and not file the insurance claim. The way my plan worked it was actually cheaper, because I would always get a bill for about $5 after he filed the claim.

[PurpleLove08]

Originally Posted by oberon_1

I don't get it. How can a single person negotiate anything? What leverage do you have?
For example, most people are in this position with dental care. Can you negotiate with you dentist?
That being said, there might be something in working directly with a doctor. The administrative layer can be removed, simplifying things and lowering costs for the doctor. For a young healthy person, it may be cheaper then paying insurance premiums.

I know some credit card and mortgage companies are settling with some people letting them literally pay pennies on the dollar.
I don't see why it can't be any different with medical bills.
If the surgery is say 4,000 bucks, the insurance company will give them less than $1,000 for it and you'll pay $2,000 now versus them having to pay someone to call you every month to remind you that you have a balance or them sending you a bill in the mail every month.

For some people having the cash then and there makes it worth their while.

[hotair2]

Originally Posted by oberon_1

I don't get it. How can a single person negotiate anything? What leverage do you have?
For example, most people are in this position with dental care. Can you negotiate with you dentist?
That being said, there might be something in working directly with a doctor. The administrative layer can be removed, simplifying things and lowering costs for the doctor. For a young healthy person, it may be cheaper then paying insurance premiums.

You can always negotiate.

[tinman01]

Originally Posted by hotair2

You can always negotiate.

And they can always say that you need to see another doctor.
Before we can even address healthcare costs we need to address tort reform. Its no mystery why there are more lawyer adds in the yellow pages than doctors. You can't watch late night TV without being bombarded by Tort lawyer adds for class action lawsuits. Victims get a few bucks and the lawyers get a lot of bucks. The anger at doctors is misplaced. It should be aimed at those who are doing the actual raping of america. That be the greedy scumbag lawyers.

[Danno3314]

Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D

I had dental insurance years ago that had a $40 co-pay. Dental insurance has always been less generous than health insurance. My dentist charged around $65 if I remember. At check-out one visit he told me that if I wanted to just give him the $40 he would change to the bill to $40 and not file the insurance claim. The way my plan worked it was actually cheaper, because I would always get a bill for about $5 after he filed the claim.

The truth is dental insurance is not really feasible. It's not like health insurance where you can run into a catastrophic illness that could bankrupt you. It's dental care, if you have coverage, you're going to use it once or twice a year at the minimum. There are no people not putting any claims in to help pay for the people that are....and as the dental bill gets more expensive, it usually covers a lower percentage (like 100%-80%-50%).

When you get it through your employer, it's a benefit they're providing for you that if you had to pay the full premium on it, you would never want it. What they're really doing is giving you pre-paid dental. The only good group coverage here in AZ is Ameritas or Delta (and as I said, it's completely over priced).

On individual coverage, in order to make the price something you might consider, the benefits stink and your dentist won't accept it as full payment....you usually have to submit the claims your self too. Be careful, when see one that has a life-time deductible (it used to be of $100), it's a set-up. People think well, if I'm only going to have to meet the decuctible one time and then from there on no more deductible, it's worth it. You'll end up paying for it every month for a year, finally meet deductible and then after twelve months, you'll get a rate increase that will make your jaw drop....that's the gimmick, you won't want to keep it more than 12 months and you won't get anything from it for the first twelve months....you'll just pay the premiums.

[hotair2]

Originally Posted by tinman01

And they can always say that you need to see another doctor.
Before we can even address healthcare costs we need to address tort reform. Its no mystery why there are more lawyer adds in the yellow pages than doctors. You can't watch late night TV without being bombarded by Tort lawyer adds for class action lawsuits. Victims get a few bucks and the lawyers get a lot of bucks. The anger at doctors is misplaced. It should be aimed at those who are doing the actual raping of america. That be the greedy scumbag lawyers.

.

I would agree that there are two many lawyers. In the past 20 years the amount of law schools have almost tripled while the amount of med schools have virtually stayed the same. That is because the AMA is an effective union used to limit the supply of doctors thereby increasing the salaries of the doctors. Lawyers have to compete that is why they advertise. Doctors do not have to compete and that is why they don't. People are lining up at the doors for doctors because there is not enough of them. Thanks to congress and the AMA.

//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...union-u-s.html

However, as to how torts affect health care costs you are simply dead wrong. I have posted a thread previously which I am sure that you never read.

//www.city-data.com/forum/polit...ce-health.html