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"Your numbers prove NOTHING.. because they don't exist. In all the data out there about healthcare not ONE has numbers of those that have "choosen" not to have insurance."
According to the CBO, 45 percent of the uninsured are uninsured for four months or less, which seems like a pretty positive number to me.
Then, another portion of uninsured Americans already qualify for an existing government health insurance program — and government already controls 46 percent of spending on health care — for which they have not signed up.
The CBO estimates that as many as 15 percent of the chronically uninsured are already eligible for help. The Urban Institute (hardly advocates of free-market fundamentalism) found that 25 percent of the uninsured qualify for some program.
Surely, most citizens will concur that health care is too expensive (though most citizens would likely concur that everything is too expensive) and something should be done. So when Obama tells us that 46 million Americans are uninsured, he is implying that 46 million people can't afford health insurance. That, too, is absurd.
In a study for the National Bureau of Economic Research, "Is Health Insurance Affordable for the Uninsured?," Stanford economists say that "based on a plausible range of definitions and assumptions . . . health insurance is affordable for between one quarter and three quarters of adults who are not insured."
Turns out that 8.4 million uninsured Americans are making $50,000 to $74,999 and 9.1 million more are making more than $75,000. Health insurance is just incompatible with their lifestyles, I guess. There are obviously inconveniences — children and mortgages, for instance — that can quickly make $50,000 seem like a pittance. Then again, 27 percent of all adults in their 20s (many, I presume, without offspring) choose not to have health insurance. Many of them surely have the means to purchase insurance, but after meticulously considering the tradeoffs (imbibing or insuring?) say no thanks.
Again, you make my point. there are all kinds of stats out there.
Your limited conversation with a handful of "young people" do not qualify as an adequate cross section of information. It's not an official study and it proves nothing
"I had a convo with a persno that said when he was younger he didn't have it by choice"
So, when you have a conversation that is imperical data but, when I have one it does not qualify.
A discussion is when people voice thier "opinions". You have yours, I have mine. I believe you have very stong opinions on this subject and any other opinion you will dismiss "because you are right". I think you are very condensending in your replies.
If you take all of what you said as the truth, how do you explain the rising cost of health care. A lot of people say that the high cost of care is because of the number of uninsured, if there are not that many uninsured or the uninsured are healthy...how do you explain the cost.
Could it be because the market for healthcare insurance is essentially "cornered" state to state? Wouldn't opening up the competition (like anything) bring the cost down? As a start that is...
[quote=Quick Enough;10434757]"Your numbers prove NOTHING.. because they don't exist. In all the data out there about healthcare not ONE has numbers of those that have "choosen" not to have insurance."
According to the CBO, 45 percent of the uninsured are uninsured for four months or less, which seems like a pretty positive number to me.
Then, another portion of uninsured Americans already qualify for an existing government health insurance program β and government already controls 46 percent of spending on health care β for which they have not signed up.
The CBO estimates that as many as 15 percent of the chronically uninsured are already eligible for help. The Urban Institute (hardly advocates of free-market fundamentalism) found that 25 percent of the uninsured qualify for some program.
Surely, most citizens will concur that health care is too expensive (though most citizens would likely concur that everything is too expensive) and something should be done. So when Obama tells us that 46 million Americans are uninsured, he is implying that 46 million people can't afford health insurance. That, too, is absurd.
In a study for the National Bureau of Economic Research, "Is Health Insurance Affordable for the Uninsured?," Stanford economists say that "based on a plausible range of definitions and assumptions . . . health insurance is affordable for between one quarter and three quarters of adults who are not insured."
Turns out that 8.4 million uninsured Americans are making $50,000 to $74,999 and 9.1 million more are making more than $75,000. Health insurance is just incompatible with their lifestyles, I guess. There are obviously inconveniences β children and mortgages, for instance β that can quickly make $50,000 seem like a pittance. T
Quote:
hen again, 27 percent of all adults in their 20s (many, I presume, without offspring) choose not to have health insurance. Many of them surely have the means to purchase insurance, but after meticulously considering the tradeoffs (imbibing or insuring?) say no thanks.
And where oh where is this 27% figure you are throwing at coming from?
Again, you make my point. there are all kinds of stats out there.
Quote:
Your limited conversation with a handful of "young people" do not qualify as an adequate cross section of information. It's not an official study and it proves nothing
"I had a convo with a persno that said when he was younger he didn't have it by choice"
So, when you have a conversation that is imperical data but, when I have one it does not qualify.
I never said my conversations with young people counted for anything.. it was to show you that those conversations are meaningless because just as many as you claim to have had with young people that seem to fit what YOU think of them (ie: choosing not to have it over the cost) is about just as many as I have spoken to that say just the opposite. YOU are citing your conversations as absolute proof that you are correct.. I didn't state my conversations were what makes me believe that what yousay is untrue.. I look at income vs cost .. salary increase vs. cost increase as my proof.
Quote:
A discussion is when people voice thier "opinions". You have yours, I have mine. I believe you have very stong opinions on this subject and any other opinion you will dismiss "because you are right". I think you are very condensending in your replies.
Your opinions are based on faulty assumptions.. fAULTY.
Let's consider something. you talk about how it doesn't fit into their "lifestyle".
lets take a family.. the average workign family that makes say $60K a year. Tehy own a small business. At one point in time they were able to afford their premiums, the house mortgage that they have etc. The mortgaeg payments will stay the same.. salaries usually increase. Cost of everything will increase.. but usually they increase at a NORMAL scale and in proporations, no?
But then someone..like a poster above.. suddenly finds that while his salary increased slightly ..lets say teh average 2.5%(business improved some) but his insurance premium increased 18% as demonstrated by a poster above. Maybe they are still okay in affording the "lifestyle".. ie: the house , the cars that they budgeted.. but their discretionary is decreasing because while everything else increased slightly.. their premiums again went up 18%..
Next year.. they increase AGAIN.. and AGAIN.. at a double digit percentage.. the average 12%.. Suddenly that house, that car and everything else they could afford is now overshadowed by extemely accelerated rise in insurance costs.
What does the family do with children.. DOWNGRADE to a smaller house??? Slide BACKWARDS in the "lifestyle" they have and at one point were able to afford.
Again.. when salaries are increasing at a 2.5% tick and insurance is going up at 4x's that.. suddenly the mortgage you once paid and could afford, the car you had and could pay for you suddenly can't because your insruance is eating up your budget.. you find yourself not being able to save.. and then eventually you won't be able to pay the mortgage..
So you see.. why on paper that all looks great. but when you apply ACTUAL REAL LIFE it's twisted.
and.. the average American family..they live inmodest homes.. perhaps we can all downgrade to a cardboard box to afford health insurance.
So..what does a family do? Give up their housing to pay for the health insurance.. because technically renting should and would cost just as much... but maybe slightly less... but when health insurance increases again.. then what..
WE can all live in our cars so that we can afford the double digit % increase in health insurance
tristans mommy
"Your opinions are based on faulty assumptions.. fAULTY"
Again, you didn't read.My data came from the CBO as I stated. You have never stated where your data comes from.
If something is said that you don't like you try to dismiss it because it doesn't fit your agenda.
"Your numbers prove NOTHING.. because they don't exist. In all the data out there about healthcare not ONE has numbers of those that have "choosen" not to have insurance."
According to the CBO, 45 percent of the uninsured are uninsured for four months or less, which seems like a pretty positive number to me.
Then, another portion of uninsured Americans already qualify for an existing government health insurance program β and government already controls 46 percent of spending on health care β for which they have not signed up.
The CBO estimates that as many as 15 percent of the chronically uninsured are already eligible for help. The Urban Institute (hardly advocates of free-market fundamentalism) found that 25 percent of the uninsured qualify for some program.
Surely, most citizens will concur that health care is too expensive (though most citizens would likely concur that everything is too expensive) and something should be done. So when Obama tells us that 46 million Americans are uninsured, he is implying that 46 million people can't afford health insurance. That, too, is absurd.
In a study for the National Bureau of Economic Research, "Is Health Insurance Affordable for the Uninsured?," Stanford economists say that "based on a plausible range of definitions and assumptions . . . health insurance is affordable for between one quarter and three quarters of adults who are not insured."
Turns out that 8.4 million uninsured Americans are making $50,000 to $74,999 and 9.1 million more are making more than $75,000. Health insurance is just incompatible with their lifestyles, I guess. There are obviously inconveniences β children and mortgages, for instance β that can quickly make $50,000 seem like a pittance. Then again, 27 percent of all adults in their 20s (many, I presume, without offspring) choose not to have health insurance. Many of them surely have the means to purchase insurance, but after meticulously considering the tradeoffs (imbibing or insuring?) say no thanks.
Again, you make my point. there are all kinds of stats out there.
Your limited conversation with a handful of "young people" do not qualify as an adequate cross section of information. It's not an official study and it proves nothing
"I had a convo with a persno that said when he was younger he didn't have it by choice"
So, when you have a conversation that is imperical data but, when I have one it does not qualify.
A discussion is when people voice thier "opinions". You have yours, I have mine. I believe you have very stong opinions on this subject and any other opinion you will dismiss "because you are right". I think you are very condensending in your replies.
This is all good, but do you have any cites to reference your facts.
tristans mommy
"Your opinions are based on faulty assumptions.. fAULTY"
Again, you didn't read.My data came from the CBO as I stated. You have never stated where your data comes from.
If something is said that you don't like you try to dismiss it because it doesn't fit your agenda.
Because they are making ASSUMPTIONS!! ASSUMPTIONS.. and the CBO has been wrong on a lot of things lately.. especialy regarding healthcare.
You obviously didn't read MY post.. where I said on Paper it looks like everyone should be able to afford it.. BUT you didn't take into account all the other stuff..like 2.5% income increase and 12% cost increase can suddenly find someone that had been making say $70K and comfortably affording their "lifestyle" .. suddenly unable to afford insurance as it starts eating into their mortgage and their "lifestyle"...
all that crap on paper means nothing until you apply it to real life.. how many times have we thought we met someone that was "perfect" on paper only to find out they were a complete ass when standing right in front of you!
Purplelove, i actually like this article. I think he raises some valid arguments and offers a few reason why we pay so much for health care. I tend to agree part of the high, is attributed to our overall demand for more services. I wonder how many services on average citizens of France, United Kingdom, Canada, etc get when compared to the prices they pay? I'd like to see an honest comparison between our country and theirs.
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