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I find it amazing that women just dont get it ; heres how it works :
If you start flashing your breasts , expect :
May I ask; have you ever been to the beaches in Europe or the South Pacific or South America? I think not for if you had, you would have noticed that nuditiy is the norm - being nude is not a "taboo" as we here in the "West" have made it.
This is the point I was making where it seems evolution "evidently didn't provide us with any brains". You are trying to apply your personal subjective taste to regulate how a larger population can live their life. I was replying to the logic that since you cannot keep your food down, it should not be allowed.
The examples I provided (fat people, really skinny people, disabled, etc.) could all fall under bad taste for certain people. For instance, I do not enjoy seeing fat people. I think being fat is in bad taste. However, I would NEVER suggest that fat people shouldn't be allowed within my sight. I do not think that a personal taste should be the justification for limiting what others can do. After all, perhaps there are people out there who think traits that I possess should limit my freedoms within this life.
You talked about 'practicality' in your response, which is a good direction for your argument. You started attempting to use an objective argument, instead of primarily a subjective. However, you still sprinkled in assertions of your taste within those points. I'll ask you this: Given an environment where it's not too cold, not too hot, and not insect-infested, WHY should people be legally prevented from removing an item from the top half of their body?
Your arguments about the practicality also are only limited to the 'personal'. Sure, it may not be practical for someone to be topless in a snowstorm. However, how does that affect YOU? THEY will be cold. If they want to risk frostbite, shouldn't they have the freedom to be able to?
There is nothing inherently wrong with being topless. Everybody processes the sensory information in different ways. Your views on it are the result of social programming. I addressed you because I found your implication that your personal taste should drive policy to be illogical. I am of the ilk that thinks we should find an OBJECTIVE rationale (not based on taste) when trying to justify whether to limit a populace's freedom.
I didn't ever say anything was 'wrong' with it (other than it turns my stomach, which is sarcasm). I've admitted that I find it absolutely tasteless trailer trash sort of thing... but who cares what I think? That's just me. Others would find things that I do tasteless. That's the way the world works. So, although I find it pathetic, that isn't really the main point. I believe in pretty much absolute personal freedom anyway.
I’m not arguing on the issue of the ‘right’ to do it. I don’t care about that. As far as I’m concerned you have the right to do whatever turns your crank. My first point is that of lack of practicality. I find no practicality other than a life threatening heat stroke situation. How many times do you hear the doctors telling us to cover our skin? Of course in the cold, you pretty much have to, but I've always heard that overexposure to the sun can cause skin cancer. Now, unless you are planning on dowsing yourself with sunscreen 24 hours a day (which probably also has health risks), tell me where the practicality of being naked fits into the matter? And as the anti-smoking crowd will tell you, we all pay for other's personal health risks, don't we? Why should I have to pay for someone's skin cancer if they were too stupid to cover up? Isn't that the way the argument goes?
Also, just because we can fight for a right to do something, it doesn't mean it's a worthwhile activity to have the right to do. I can fight for the right to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge. Assuming I'm given the right to do it, is that a wise thing for me to do? (unless I want to die?)
I am not totally immune to this rather interesting effect, but sometimes we fight for a 'right' that is just absolutely stupid. In this case it's a situation that it would make more practical sense to go the opposite direction and just require studs to wear a shirt, rather than fighting for impracticality. Nobody’s heart would be broken by not seeing a baboon’s cousin’s hairy chest.
This issue doesn't seem too different to me than if men started fighting for the 'right' to wear a dress. FINE, you have the right... But what the hell good does it do? There comes a point that it's just a bunch of whiny nonsense.
Again, I don’t care if you have the right to do anything as long as it’s not adversely affecting others. I just think it’s rather childish and impractical. And YES, I personally don’t want to see men or women nude in public. It doesn’t appeal to me, but that’s beside the point and not my main argument--most of that other stuff I’ve been sprinkling in is just sarcasm because I find the whole thing ridiculous. It’s like me arguing for the right to walk around with a chunk of cow s**t on my shoulder; it makes no practical sense.
Whatever happened to leaving something to the imagination? Do other women really think this will bring them some positive attention? I mean, I get the naturists want to walk around like the day they were born, but theres already tons of places to do that. Why do it in front of my husband, boyfriend, family? Why? The males I know are not "evolved" enough to look at a boob and not think about sex. The minority of men who look at a boob and dont think of sex are usually gay or just very disentisized. The majority of men aren't like that. Why would I want my husband/boyfriend looking at a woman in the street while we are taking a walk and suddenly he sees a woman topless thinking he wants to have sex with her. Why expose him to that? And the problem is not that he would go up to her and grab her, because I doubt most men will since men can be preety civilized when there are laws in place. The problem would simply be that my SO would be getting all these sexual thoughts in his head that involve other women. Insecurity? Maybe. But I am not going to wear blinders and say this wont be the case since I know men and what they like. Boobs being on the top of the list.
If women should start doing this all over the place, I would have to accept it. But don't come complaining when my boobs are getting your man's attraction. If you fought for this liberty, then you assume the consequences.
It's not about gaining attention, positive or otherwise. If your husband saw an 80 year old woman topless, do you believe he'd want to have sex with her? If it's not the sight of any breasts but rather breasts attatched to specific women that bring about the reaction it's not merely the sight of breasts doing it.
You are a woman, have you never noticed a man undressing you with his eyes? Ever had a man tell you that the way you look (clothed) turned him on? Women get this type of attention from men when fully dressed, why would being topless and getting the same attention concern them?
My ex was a leg man, I certainly didn't expect women around me to wear long pants even though he might find someone attractive and become turned on by it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
This issue doesn't seem too different to me than if men started fighting for the 'right' to wear a dress. FINE, you have the right... But what the hell good does it do? There comes a point that it's just a bunch of whiny nonsense.
Men already have the "right" to wear a dress. It may not be socially acceptable for them to do so but there is nothing illegal about it. Drag queens do it all the time and I've never heard of one being arrested because they are in a dress rather than pants.
lol that was a funny post, ummm no I don't like seeing either sex roaming around topless in public, if your in the woods or something or doing yard work I think it is ok for a guy to go topless but even in public I think it looks tacky to walk around with out a shirt, yea most of the guys that do it have nice chests and everything, but put a shirt on. It's just respectful. Why would women want to go topless anyways? you need something there for comfort to hold you in place. Yea there are still topless beaches and stuff, some smaller beaches are officially topless still just not known for it, and if you are bothering anyone they will just ask you to move down I heard...so I'm going to say 'no' on this, I think it would promote more subjection of the female sex and not equality as they are aiming for
Whatever happened to leaving something to the imagination? Do other women really think this will bring them some positive attention?
May I suggest you NEVER take a cruise in the Caribbean? For it is almost assured that you WILL SEE a woman either topless or nude somewhere on deck -
We have taken at least a dozen such cruises and it has NEVER failed!
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How many times have I read about the evils of objectification?
