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Early night? Hoboken NJ is the same time zone as mine, but I'm not quite ready to hit the pillows just yet....
Oh Shorebaby....you were good enough to provide us with a link, but you won't stick around to debate it, considering the fact that it's a biased link. I can do biased links too, if you like? I could post such links and call you a "loser" for not discussing each of the hypothetical "biased" links that I provided, just like you, in effect....but I won't, because I'm generally a nice guy, despite what others say about me. But by the same token, if you see no need to discuss the "abysmal state of our educational system", as you put it (which many C-D members are indeed prime examples of how our educational system has in fact, failed), why post the link in the first place?
Since you're having an early night, you should feel refreshed and invigorated enough in the morning to go and do some research on infant mortality rates in *different* European countries, to see how they compare. I would very much like for you to get back to us here at C-D with your findings and maybe you could put together a little spreadsheet for us, showing your detailed analysis, complete with sources (I'd like to see more than one source, not just the pajama site).
Anyway, get some rest....a new day and fresh challenges await you tomorrow
Couldn't find any data to contradict my assertion? Didn't think so.
The link to our educational system is to point out why so many people don't understand what data is much less how to use it. Case in point.
Unfortunately this discussion posed no challenge for me. Just as refuting biased data should have proven no challenge for you. Our educational system strikes again.
Last edited by shorebaby; 08-29-2009 at 09:35 AM..
The problem many of us are concerned about, though, is that their high taxes are still not paying for the system.
These countries are all still in financial trouble over it.
But they accept it because health care is a right in those countries. They have a different mindset.
The way forward for anything is the ability to try new ideas.
I am not a fan of the mixed wards. I have been in one a couple of times and prefer the good old male/female wards. The new Hospitals have much smaller Wards and many many more private suites.
Unfortunately the word change soon came to an end in the USA when Obama won the Election. The Anti-change brigade soon started their anti Obama chant and it has scared many away from the reason they voted Obama into the Presidency....CHANGE.
What is this phobia in America against progress. What exactly has America achieved in the last decade?
Mind set is important in any Country and the closed mindset of the "Elite" in America will only drag America further down the W.H.O. list of the Worlds health systems. 37th place will soon look like a great position.
The way forward for anything is the ability to try new ideas.
I am not a fan of the mixed wards. I have been in one a couple of times and prefer the good old male/female wards. The new Hospitals have much smaller Wards and many many more private suites.
Unfortunately the word change soon came to an end in the USA when Obama won the Election. The Anti-change brigade soon started their anti Obama chant and it has scared many away from the reason they voted Obama into the Presidency....CHANGE.
What is this phobia in America against progress. What exactly has America achieved in the last decade?
Mind set is important in any Country and the closed mindset of the "Elite" in America will only drag America further down the W.H.O. list of the Worlds health systems. 37th place will soon look like a great position.
And these happened because hospitals were full and they had no place for the women to deliver...................
Hospitals in America have babies born in whatever room is available or even in the ER if the woman comes to the ER too late to be transfered to a delivery room or the delivery rooms are full. There is NO difference in any Hospital anywhere in the World. I have NEVER heard of babies being born in corridors and i really suspect this story to be sensationalised. Hospitals in the UK always make sure that when a baby is born that it is done in a room with the experienced staff needed for the Delivery. Never have i seen or even been told about babies being born in corridors but i'm sure, just as in America, it has happened somewhere.
In the UK..yes.
We always had male/female wards. Over the past few years we have had mixed wards but we aren't keen on them and hopefully they will change. This does NOT detract from the great healthcare that we recieve and it really isn't a priority just a minor nuisance.
If there is a real problem we cmplain to the Govt. and they can then put it right.
One incident of this that i know of was a woman i know who a few years ago was diagnosed with Breast Cancer. It was at a very early stage and in the UK we have fast track for anyone presenting with possible cancer. She was told that her treatment might take a few weeks to start. She contacted the newspapers and the Govt. In two days they had opened a theatre up at the wekend for her and she recirved her surgery. The Govt not only finances the NHS here but takes patients complaints extremely seriously. This fear mongering about how the Govt gets between you and your Doctor is B/S. People don't always like some decisions made by the health authorities but there are many ways to have it examined and overturned if necessary.
I think this pretty much says it and this is from a spokesman for the health system.
"Jon Skewes, from the RCM, said: “The rise in the number of births in other than a designated labour bed is a concern. We would want to see the detail behind these figures to look at why this is happening.
“There is no doubt that maternity services are stretched, and that midwives are working harder and harder to provide good quality care.”"
next paragraph:
He added: “It is always unfortunate when a woman’s hopes for her baby’s birth do not go as planned. However, no matter how well resourced a service is, there will be circumstances when women give birth in places they had not planned to because pregnancy can be unpredictable.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
I don't think one can describe NHS maternity services as very good.
"The most serious concerns at poorly performing trusts include: · Insufficient midwives available. Some women report being left alone and frightened during labour. · Women not getting the continuity of care with the midwives they met before birth. Obstetricians not spending enough time on the labour ward - despite the Royal College's recommendations. · Guidelines from the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence on risky pregnancies not being followed. · Too few beds and bathrooms being made available. · Care and support for women after the birth not being good enough."
hey, facts! good job!
that article does indicate that there are problems with the nhs when it comes to ob-gyn services. good thing we're not adopting an nhs-style system!
of course, we don't know if these flaws are inherent in the system because it's single payer, or arises from other issues.
no one is claiming that any one system is perfect. every health care system has its flaws. but the united states' system's major flaw, that health care is not affordable to a large segment of the population, is a huge one that needs to be remedied. there are scores of "public options" to choose from, or we could come up with our own system. you can't just point to specific problems with a random healthcare system and say "see, this is what will happen if we adopt a single payer system or even offer government insurance". that's just not logical.
on top of all that, i already posted numerous examples of women who were turned away from maternity wards in the u.s. because of inability to pay, and giving birth outside of the hospital because of it. so obviously this problem is not unique to the uk.
He added: “It is always unfortunate when a woman’s hopes for her baby’s birth do not go as planned. However, no matter how well resourced a service is, there will be circumstances when women give birth in places they had not planned to because pregnancy can be unpredictable.”
hey, facts! good job!
that article does indicate that there are problems with the nhs when it comes to ob-gyn services. good thing we're not adopting an nhs-style system!
of course, we don't know if these flaws are inherent in the system because it's single payer, or arises from other issues.
no one is claiming that any one system is perfect. every health care system has its flaws. but the united states' system's major flaw, that health care is not affordable to a large segment of the population, is a huge one that needs to be remedied. there are scores of "public options" to choose from, or we could come up with our own system. you can't just point to specific problems with a random healthcare system and say "see, this is what will happen if we adopt a single payer system or even offer government insurance". that's just not logical.
on top of all that, i already posted numerous examples of women who were turned away from maternity wards in the u.s. because of inability to pay, and giving birth outside of the hospital because of it. so obviously this problem is not unique to the uk.
No but it is a problem associated with UHC. We should not have any government involvement (except as a pay source for indigent folks, and regulatory function) in health care. It is something that no government has proven they can do well.
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