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Trust me, to almost all Europeans America is a nation of lunacy. They don't want to be america at all either, but too often this government shoves in their face demands and pressures.
They have NO interest to meddle into american dealings or what you do in your own country. No one is convincing anyone. What I am opposing is yours and your comrades contorted ignorance about socialism; you are insulting these countries with your twisted propaganda. In fact, the word ignorant is mildly put... I am clarifying to people who may believe in your hallucinations, that socialism is nothing what you claim it to be!
To this point in the discussion, I have yet to state my own personal opinions as it relates to socialist theories.
Thus, the only ignorance I see here are your assumptions into my positions.
I am simply pointing out that the US has adapted socialist theories into our system of economics.
I believe this polls is clearly designed to ask question that will portray the GOP negatively regardless of what answer is given. To me it is very biased leading into bashing the GOP, no different as others love to bash the DNC.
I do use the word socialism if I believe a program has that characteristic. It is no different as if someone calls some view stupid, dumb, smart, good, bad, etc.
If an idea fall under the criteria I believe is socialist nothing with calling it that. There are many Americans that do believe socialism is good, I do not agree with the general principles of it but I am not going to use the term on them in a demeaning way though.
I think somebody needs to understand the difference between socialism and communism.
You provided the definition.
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It is also important to note that capitalism can come in small packets, just as socialism. It isn't a black and white world. You can have socialism in an economy without having the entire economy socialist.
Indeed, which is why the US economy is classified as mixed.
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Secondly, the concepts of socialism were around LONG before Marx wrote about them and expounded on the theories. Marx came up with the term "Means of Production", which is defined as:
means of production The means that are used to produce goods and services, including the social relations between workers, technology, and other resources used. The term is prominent in Marxist theory, since Marx's characterizationof capitalismhinges on the distinction between those who own the means of production (capitalists), and those who have nothing to sell but their own labour-power (proletarians).
No argument from me.
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So tell me. When the Obama took over GM, did they take over the capitalist nature of the business and control the workers, technology, and resources for production?
Obama didn't "take over" anything. I'm disappointed that you went to all the trouble in providing definitions, then you fall back on (incorrect) rhetoric.
Just to refresh your memory: The automakers came to DC asking for money. No one, not Obama, not anyone in his administration, forced anything on any automaker. GM ASKED FOR THE MONEY. IT'S A LOAN. A loan != a "take over," regardless of how you choose to define that term.
When the bank lends you money for a home, it does not "take over" anything. You are free to do with your home as you please.
They constantly use words that they do not understand: fascism, Nazism, Marxism, socialism, capitalism, communism, and label Obama's policies and/or him all of them out of ignorance.
They probably got pulled out of school on those days when these -isms were discussed.
Last edited by Sampaguita; 09-03-2009 at 10:28 PM..
Reason: forgot to add capitalism
1. Bush was a liberal socialist. Obama is just more of a socialist.
Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong suit.
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Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
2. Medicare won't be around when I retire. It is just another tax for me
That's the typical answer. What about those with Medicare now? How can the GOP be both for and against SOCIALIZED medicine and have any integrity?
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Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
3. The Vets EARNED thier healthcare. Deadbeats did not
Yes, but it's still socialism. The difference is you berate one group while uplifting another to validate it.
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Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
4. Do I tell my partents that social security is for dead beats? Yes- they are liberals so they think it is okay. I don't.
I'm sure if social security is still around you will send the check back correct? How about Bush's stimulus checks? Did those just go straight to the shredder?
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Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
5. Did I scream about national parks and roads? No they are national resources and a means of conducting commerce, not a blank check to dead beats. Both are useful. Dead beats are not useful for anything but consumption.
Once again, my point is made. You are validating one while vilifying another. Sorry you can't seem to see why that is so hypocritical (see my original post for more details.)
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Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
Pay for all the crap you want yourself. You libs are greedy and selfish and demand that others pay for everything you want, while shirking your fiscal responsibility.
We are already paying for it with higher insurance premiums and through subsidies the government offers employers to offer health insurance to their employees. The bottom line is that we are a fusion of Socialism and Capitalism and have been for a long time. You can cherry pick what you like and don't like, but you can't cry "Socialism" without me calling you a "Hypocrite."
I am simply pointing out that the US has adapted socialist theories into our system of economics.
The preamble to the Constitution reads, in part: We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare...
It can be argued that "socialist theory" is evident in those words. Doing so doesn't get us anywhere, though.
One of the hallmarks of capitalistic finance - the insurance industry - can be argued to be based on socialistic thought. Again, it would be pointless to argue that socialism finances capitalism. Doesn't make a lick of sense.
Just because people understand that what is beneficial to society as a whole can also be beneficial to the individual, does not in any way indicate socialism.
Do you feel the GOP abuses this word, picking a choosing what they deem "Socialist" as it fits their needs?
Their hero Bush oversaw the largest expansion of Medicare/Medicaid in history. Did they call him a "Socialist"? Of course not. Rather they applauded him.
Did they march in the street and call Bush a "Socialist" when he bailed Wall Street out to the tune of BILLIONS? Of course not. Rather they applauded him.
All of them will be using the Medicare when they reach the appropriate age. Why aren't they marching in the street and complaining about that? Do they write up signs and cry "Socialism" in the street over Medicare? Of course not. In fact the GOP is doing their best to strengthen that program.
Do they march in front of their local VA and scream "Socialists" as those who served our country walk (or wheel) in for medical care? Of course they don't.
Do they go to public schools all across this country and scream at their children's teachers for "indoctrinating their children" with "Socialism"? Of course they don't.
Do they march in front of libraries and scream "Socialists" to those who can check a free book or movie out? Of course they don't.
Do they scream "Socialist" while Fireman, Policemen, and other emergency personnel make their way into work each day? Of course they don't.
Do they write letters of protest about national parks they will never visit or roads they will never get to drive on? Of course they don't.
Do they scream at their parents, grandparents, great aunts and uncles when they go to pick up their social security check each month? Do they cut these people out of their life because they are free loading "Socialists"? Of course they don't.
Did they march in the streets after no bid contracts were awarded to Halliburton AFTER they were found guilty of fleecing the American tax payer? Of course not.
Are they willfully ignorant in regards to this word, embarrassingly so, assigning it to those they do not like? Of course they are.
The Op gives a clear lesson in the choices given in socialist nations by his comrades.Straight from the liitle red book.
so you all have a choice: you can continue to be hypocrites or you can stop being "socialist" when it suits your own purposes.
Corporate socialism is all right with you all too, evidently. Good guard doggies
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Originally Posted by kerrymac
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Go back and bury your heads in the sand....
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