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I have got free healthcare in Europe Nirvana guy and actually it has been pretty good. Yes the UK does have long waiting lists ( 20 years of conservative government before labour virtually destroyed the National health system and it will take a while to get better but I have never had to wait in France and Germany ( France by the way is the best health care system according to the World Health organisation) and free and accessible to all. Most British people are terrified when they visit the US that they will even sprain as little as an ankle as everyone in the world knows it is so expensive to be ill in the US. Oh and by the way the free system in France and Belgium can't be doing too badly as a lot of Brits are travelling to get treatment there. Any civilised country which allows its most vulnerable members to basically die because they can't afford health care is criminal and not that civilised.
Health care should not be a luxury , it is a basic right which should be accessible to all regardless of financial circumstances. And not everyone in the UK , does want to live in the US believe me. Not when they find out how easyit is to become destitute .
Waitasecond!!! You say the Conservatives in the UK ruined the healthcare system, while the liberals have been in power for years?!?
The REASON the UK healthcare system has collapsed is because the liberals created a "come on in all illegal aliens from Pakistan and North Africa" and they take up so many government services, there is none left for teh Brits.
Yes, the basic band-aid and headache pills at the public doctor works fine in the UK and all over Europe, but as soon as you need something more than that, you have to wait years for it. Most people just cave in, sell their home and pya private doctor.
Now here is the catch. Because the Brits and the French have "socilaized healthcare" NO ONE is offerede healthcare at work. No one. So you are STUCK with public care, even if you don't want it. So you need any surgeries or anything, you are screwed.
Trust me, my dad is Dutch and he has used the public system in Holland. It is a piece of crap. And Holland is an extremely wealthy country. My dad rather work harder here, pay a LOT LESS IN TAXES in the US and buy his own care. At age 54, he can buy insurance for $336/mo. He pays something less $14,000 LESS in taxes than he would if he made the same money he does here in Holland.
That is why Americans have SUCH comfortable lifestyles. Taxes are lower and everything (I mean EVERYTHING) costs less here than in Europe. Food in Europe is a rip-off. Cigs and alcohol (I don't smoke or drink, buT i saw prices) is through the roof. Compare to Europe and the lifestyle we have here is much better. Homes are heated better. Everyone here has a car, no one is FORCED (in Europe you are forced to take the bus because car taxes are through the roof) to ride the bus. Everyone here has easier access to loans to buy own home.
Socialized healthcare ONLY works in rich countries that have NO illegal immigration. Once the doors fly open and illegals flow in and take up "free services", the system just collapses. It worked great in the UK and in Holland, but no more.
Where are the pro-lifers on this? Maybe they only care more about the unborn instead of LIVING, BREATHING human beings like themselves. I haven't heard a stir from anybody, especially when from pro-lifers, about this. Their name is misnomer. The pro-life movement should be called the pro-birth movement. "We care about the unborn until they're born. After that, who cares?" They are just anti-abortion. Medical justice is probably viewed as a distraction by them, along with the death penalty. Euthanasia, stem cell research, and human cloning make up the rest of their issues along with abortion. Abortion is just a distraction so the middle-class won't notice what their "pro-life" politicians are doing to health care.
Health care is a human right; a necessity. The preachers know how the human body and the world is not perfect but yet they are complicit with working with greedy elite men who profit off the backs of the vulnerable middle-class and poor. It is outrageous when employers don't provide health insurance to FULL time workers and there has to be a law about this.
Health care is a human right; a necessity. The preachers know how the human body and the world is not perfect but yet they are complicit with working with greedy elite men who profit off the backs of the vulnerable middle-class and poor. It is outrageous when employers don't provide health insurance to FULL time workers and there has to be a law about this.
Pro-lifer here, checking in to respond
Your statement that health care is a human right is just unbelievable to me.
Let me ask you a question. Do you take responsibility for your own "health care?" Do you eat right, eat your veggies, watch the fat intake? Do you smoke? Do you exercise regularly? Do you watch your alcohol intake? How proactive are you regarding your own health?
I always wonder when people make statesments like you make.
Many people abuse the body God gave them and then expect society to take care of them. They believe, as you evidentally do, that this is their right.
Where did you get the notion that your employer should pay for your health care? Why should they pay for your health care, I really don't understand.
Pro-lifer here, checking in to respond
Your statement that health care is a human right is just unbelievable to me.
Let me ask you a question. Do you take responsibility for your own "health care?" Do you eat right, eat your veggies, watch the fat intake? Do you smoke? Do you exercise regularly? Do you watch your alcohol intake? How proactive are you regarding your own health?
I always wonder when people make statesments like you make.
Many people abuse the body God gave them and then expect society to take care of them. They believe, as you evidentally do, that this is their right.
Where did you get the notion that your employer should pay for your health care? Why should they pay for your health care, I really don't understand.
And many people don't abuse the body God gave them but can't afford to take care of themselves when disaster strikes, but they probably deserved it, right?
And many people don't abuse the body God gave them but can't afford to take care of themselves when disaster strikes, but they probably deserved it, right?
Probably deserved what?
I was specifcally responding to the posters statement that health care is a right, and trying to figure out how they came to this conclusion.
We all have an obligation to take care of our bodies though many don't. And then they expect "society" to take care of them.
This take care of me attitude is pervasive in our society. Health care is definately not a right. Anyone who things this is misguided. I blame the left for leading people to believe this as part of their rhetoric.
Waitasecond!!! You say the Conservatives in the UK ruined the healthcare system, while the liberals have been in power for years?!?
The REASON the UK healthcare system has collapsed is because the liberals created a "come on in all illegal aliens from Pakistan and North Africa" and they take up so many government services, there is none left for teh Brits.
Yes, the basic band-aid and headache pills at the public doctor works fine in the UK and all over Europe, but as soon as you need something more than that, you have to wait years for it. Most people just cave in, sell their home and pya private doctor.
Now here is the catch. Because the Brits and the French have "socilaized healthcare" NO ONE is offerede healthcare at work. No one. So you are STUCK with public care, even if you don't want it. So you need any surgeries or anything, you are screwed.
Trust me, my dad is Dutch and he has used the public system in Holland. It is a piece of crap. And Holland is an extremely wealthy country. My dad rather work harder here, pay a LOT LESS IN TAXES in the US and buy his own care. At age 54, he can buy insurance for $336/mo. He pays something less $14,000 LESS in taxes than he would if he made the same money he does here in Holland.
That is why Americans have SUCH comfortable lifestyles. Taxes are lower and everything (I mean EVERYTHING) costs less here than in Europe. Food in Europe is a rip-off. Cigs and alcohol (I don't smoke or drink, buT i saw prices) is through the roof. Compare to Europe and the lifestyle we have here is much better. Homes are heated better. Everyone here has a car, no one is FORCED (in Europe you are forced to take the bus because car taxes are through the roof) to ride the bus. Everyone here has easier access to loans to buy own home.
Socialized healthcare ONLY works in rich countries that have NO illegal immigration. Once the doors fly open and illegals flow in and take up "free services", the system just collapses. It worked great in the UK and in Holland, but no more.
So I gather Nirvana guy that you have lived in France and been sick there ???
I think being French, I know a tad more about the French health system not not only having used it extensively but my family, friends , neighbours etc...
My grand mother for example had top of the range surgery on hips, knees etc... for free. She stayed in top of the range hospitals, getting top of the range treatment for top of the range specialist. For free. So have I . So have all the people I know. NO WAITING LISTS. You look up the specialist of your choice in the yellow pages, , pick up the phone and make an appointment. I think the longest I had to wait ( for non urgent) was 3 days and then you are in hospital within days.
As mentioned before how come the World Health Organisation rates France as the best health care provider in the world???
Regarding the conservatives ruining Britain, yes labour has been in power for 10 years but after 20 years of under-funding and privatisation of just about any utility the country was basically left in ruins ( ever heard of the 80s recession where the interest rates went so high ( 15 %) that hundreds of thousands of people's homes were repossessed. Gross underfunding of public transport has meant that the UK has one of the worse system in Europe ( compare it with Germany or France where it is cheap, reliable, safe and convenient).
As for immigration, immigrants to this country put in more than they cost and are actually a bonus not a drawback. The hysteria surrounding this issue is nothing but blatant racism and is not supported by facts at all.
Also don't forget that almost 250 000 people leave Britain every year so we are not quite as crowded as the tabloids would let you believe.
What an arrogant and ignorant git you are to think that you know so much when obviosuly you are talking though your ears , spouting complete rubbish.
Yes we do pay higher taxes and you know what THANK GOD FOR THAT. Taxes are not Satan's ploy to overcome the little people , they make for a better more just society where the standard of your success as a human being is not only measured by your wealth.
Europe may not be perfect but from where I am standing ( and a lot of American people seem to agree with me) neither is the US.
With an attitude like yours , no wonder your country has reached such heights of popularity world-wide.
So I gather Nirvana guy that you have lived in France and been sick there ???
I think being French, I know a tad more about the French health system not not only having used it extensively but my family, friends , neighbours etc...
What an arrogant and ignorant git you are to think that you know so much when obviosuly you are talking though your ears , spouting complete rubbish.
Yes we do pay higher taxes and you know what THANK GOD FOR THAT. Taxes are not Satan's ploy to overcome the little people , they make for a better more just society where the standard of your success as a human being is not only measured by your wealth.
Europe may not be perfect but from where I am standing ( and a lot of American people seem to agree with me) neither is the US.
With an attitude like yours , no wonder your country has reached such heights of popularity world-wide.
It is nice that you are pleased with your health care system in France However your defense seems misplaced. . . Rereading Nirvanaguys post I don't see a single mention of your country
As a proud American, and I can assure you that most Americans agree with me that although we may find fault with our country and want to make changes for the positive we kind of prickle when people criticize us.
And I can assure you that many Americans believe that taxes are as you so eloquently put it, "Satan's ploy!" It is nice that you are happy and comfortable with high taxes but many Americans do not find this the solution. You are comfortable with socialism. Great for you.. I will not get into the pros and (mostly) cons of your system. But please. . . try and debate without calling other posters names, NG is not ignorant. And I don't know what a "git" is but I assume it wasn't a term of enderment!
actually Spunky, he does mention France ."Because the Brits and the French have "socilaized healthcare" NO ONE is offerede healthcare at work. No one. So you are STUCK with public care, even if you don't want it. So you need any surgeries or anything, you are screwed". which I took to mean if you need surgery ? I apologise if I misunderstood NirvanaGuy's point though. And yes Git isn't a term of endearment ( though hardly very offensive, the closest to US would be insensitive jerk) . Considering he was mentioning France I felt it legitimate to raise the issue of his personal knowledge of that particular country's health-care. So it does seem a fairly arrogant and ignorant say about something he obviously know nothing about.
It would be like me telling you how that baseball is actually played like cricket when I know nothing about it.
I am not sure how anyone can class Austria , Germany or France as being socialist considering that all their leaders are right wing but whatever.
You may be right about your compatriots not wanting any social benefits but I have been surprised just how many AMERICAN people of this forum ( various threads) seem VERY concerned about their health care and it's obviously not that OK with everyone as every time I open an American paper there is talk about it and it is obviously a huge political "hot potato". I suspect a lot of the people do not necessarily share your views either. I am a long way from being a socialist by the way. Once again apologies if I took NirvanaGuy's comments to be racist and xenophobic or even deeply offensive.
Obviously my level of English isn't quite high enough do understand the tone of his post. Sorry. And you're not the only one who can prickle at criticisms. It's not a monopoly.
As i say though, Health-care in the US seem to be something that politicians and citizens alike are very concerned about. You may be ecstatic about your system but enough people aren't ( AMERICANS) to raise the issue , debate it in the senate, presidential debates and papers as well as this type of forums.
For God's sake! I cannot believe this. The man has a good job with good benefits. If someone does not have insurance they need to change jobs or talk to their employer. It is the employers that do not provide insurance.
I invite you to this thread,read and contribute to mine and others comments on it.What about those who are self employed,which is suppose to be a American dream yet find themselves in this situation...here--->
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