Speeding Tickets (interviews, crimes, politicians, education)

[burdell]

Originally Posted by gvcop32

Speed is also linked to the probability of being in a crash[/b], although the evidence is not as compelling because crashes are complex events that seldom can be attributed to a single factor. Crash involvement on interstate highways and non-limited-access rural roads has been associated with the deviation of the speed of crash-involved vehicles from the average speed of traffic. Crash involvement has also been associated with the speed of travel, at least on certain road types. For example, single-vehicle crash involvement rates on non-limited-access rural roads have been shown to rise with travel speed.


I am a nationally certified Crash Reconstruction Expert, if you would like to debate further.

I notice the qualifiers evidence is not as compelling and at least on certain road types


I know there are ways for you to make very accurate speed estimates during accident reconstruction, are there ways to measure if the driver was more involved with driving than a song on the radio, than thinking about an upcoming meeting, than an argument prior to getting in the car. than checking one's make-up in the mirror, etc., etc., etc.?

I ask this because I've seen people with hard cover books propped on a steering wheel while driving, shaving, putting on make up, the ever popular phone call that's apparently worth killing for, etc. I'm curious if accident reconstruction allows you to probe beyond a driver's record into general habits, state of mind, other people's assessent of one's driving ability, etc. ?

And ..................it's ridiculously easy in the US yo get a license to operate 2-3 tons of steel with very little training. I'm a lot more fearful of distracted, incompetent drivers at the speed limit or less than I am of competent, attentive drivers at higher speeds.

[Dd714]

Originally Posted by gvcop32

I think is your key phrase, because you do not know.

The Federal Highway Safety Adminstration, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, National Center for Statistics and Analysis. Refer to my other post for data.

At 25 MPH you are travelling at 36.65 feet per second. Given perception/reaction time you would cover 54.97 feet before you touch the brakes. At 55 MPH you are going 80.63 fps. Perception/reaction time takes you 120.94 feet before you start to brake, 66 more feet than at 25 MPH. This does not include the increased braking to stop distance.

Speed is a factor in almost all fatalities, and a high % of serious injury crashes. NCSA

I would like to see some independent studies. A quick search shows excessive speed a factor in anything from 12% to 35% of accidents. NHTSA shows "According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), speeding is a factor in 30 percent of all fatal crashes." That's far from "almost all". And I would guess the definition of excessive speed as a cause would be hard to define. There are other casual factors to crashes - driver inattentive, driver error, alchohol or drugs, driver falling asleep, driver running traffic lights, etc.
I don't dispute your stopping distance figures, but no one wants the national 55MPH rules in effect anymore. It will actually end up costing you more days in your life to drive then it will subtract due to the slight increased danger of a fatal accident.
Speeding law enforcement I do beleive is a big racket between insurance companies and municipalities. It's tax collection. Police do it because it's much easier to spend a day giving traffic tickets than investigating complex crimes, cities and counties like it because it generates revenue, insurance companies like it because it gives them an excuse to raise insurance rates.

[crashcop]

[quote=Dd7I4;656081]

I would like to see some independent studies. A quick search shows excessive speed a factor in anything from 12% to 35% of accidents. NHTSA shows "According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), speeding is a factor in 30 percent of all fatal crashes." That's far from "almost all".

As speed increases so do the level of injuries. A fatality listed with a drunk driver will show in the stats as alcohol related even if the final speed is excessive for the road way. You might check the Insurace Institute for more stats. In my 10 years of major crash investigation speed was involved in about 85% of all my fatalities even if was not the proximate cause.

And I would guess the definition of excessive speed as a cause would be hard to define. There are other casual factors to crashes - driver inattentive, driver error, alchohol or drugs, driver falling asleep, driver running traffic lights, etc.

These are all proximate cases for crashes, once again speed enhances the injuries.

I don't dispute your stopping distance figures, but no one wants the national 55MPH rules in effect anymore. It will actually end up costing you more days in your life to drive then it will subtract due to the slight increased danger of a fatal accident.

And I do not like 55 MPH on the Interstates. I was disputing the comment
about driving as fast as you like. It does not work in residential, business, and school zones. And the figures I listed are not stopping times but the time you first perceive the danger and then react to it. At this point you have not touched the brakes.

Speeding law enforcement I do beleive is a big racket between insurance companies and municipalities. It's tax collection. Police do it because it's much easier to spend a day giving traffic tickets than investigating complex crimes, cities and counties like it because it generates revenue, insurance companies like it because it gives them an excuse to raise insurance rates

There is no more complex investigation than a multi car, multi fatality investigation. As for other crimes they are handled by different units.
Everybody has a job. And I never saw anybody get a ticket for operating at the posted limit.

I do not know any officers that like insurance companies.

[crashcop]

[quote=burdell;656050]I notice the qualifiers evidence is not as compelling and at least on certain road types

I know there are ways for you to make very accurate speed estimates during accident reconstruction, are there ways to measure if the driver was more involved with driving than a song on the radio, than thinking about an upcoming meeting, than an argument prior to getting in the car. than checking one's make-up in the mirror, etc., etc., etc.?

You have to depend on witness accounts and passengers. I am not claiming speed is the only factor, but the faster you go the less margin for error. Most crashes have a proximate cause with speed an underlaying factor.

I ask this because I've seen people with hard cover books propped on a steering wheel while driving, shaving, putting on make up, the ever popular phone call that's apparently worth killing for, etc. I'm curious if accident reconstruction allows you to probe beyond a driver's record into general habits, state of mind, other people's assessent of one's driving ability, etc. ?

When we work bad crash we look at all the factors we can, including suicide as a cause.

And ..................it's ridiculously easy in the US yo get a license to operate 2-3 tons of steel with very little training. I'm a lot more fearful of distracted, incompetent drivers at the speed limit or less than I am of competent, attentive drivers at higher speeds.

With this I agree, execpt for the margin of error reduction at higher speeds. Few drivers are ever trained for high speed operation.

[crashcop]

Originally Posted by burdell

Curious if you have ant comparable statistics for Germany?

I believe the NHTSA has links to world stats???

[Dd714]

Originally Posted by gvcop32

There is no more complex investigation than a multi car, multi fatality investigation. As for other crimes they are handled by different units.

Police can simply shuffle more cops standing on the side of the road with radar guns to these diffferent units that you are talking about. Speeding tickets are simple, black and white - you either go over a certain speed limit or you don't. Crimes are complex, require investigation and decision making, and some hard work. I'm getting off the subject now but I have dealt with police many times in white collar crime situations with previous jobs. Sometimes talking to the police was like talking to wood - they wouldn't understand or care about complex theft or embezzlement involving thousands of dollars even when I provided them signed confessions. You wouldn't believe how many people get away with white collar crime. But speeding tickets? Oh yeah, that they understand - it's simply "sign on the doted line'.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by gvcop32

I believe the NHTSA has links to world stats???

I'm just curious not so much because of Germany's lack of speed limits in places but because from what I read it's one of the more difficuly places to get a license, they actually expect you to learn more than prallel parking and K-turns.

[burdell]

Originally Posted by gvcop32

You have to depend on witness accounts and passengers. I am not claiming speed is the only factor, but the faster you go the less margin for error. Most crashes have a proximate cause with speed an underlaying factor.

Sure, that makes perfect sense, the laws of physics can't be denied. I just get a little cranky when people try to blame speed and no other factors. 39 years of ridng motorcycles has made me observant, correction:suspicious, of other vehicles on the road and I've seen all too many problems created at speeds well below the limit.

Originally Posted by gvcop32

With this I agree, execpt for the margin of error reduction at higher speeds. Few drivers are ever trained for high speed operation.

It's been one of my pet peeves for a long time. All the modern safety innovations are great and I applaud the industry but we still place little emphasis on driver training.

[crashcop]

Originally Posted by Dd7I4

Police can simply shuffle more cops standing on the side of the road with radar guns to these diffferent units that you are talking about. Speeding tickets are simple, black and white - you either go over a certain speed limit or you don't. Crimes are complex, require investigation and decision making, and some hard work. I'm getting off the subject now but I have dealt with police many times in white collar crime situations with previous jobs. Sometimes talking to the police was like talking to wood - they wouldn't understand or care about complex theft or embezzlement involving thousands of dollars even when I provided them signed confessions. You wouldn't believe how many people get away with white collar crime. But speeding tickets? Oh yeah, that they understand - it's simply "sign on the doted line'.

I hardly know how to reply to this, being a dumb cop and all. Your air of superiority is over whelming. Since you have a grasp on police tactics and functions why do you not enlighten me on how you would structure a department and allocate manpower? By the way since you skpped it why do you not thrown in a simple speed formula with multi surfaces and a vault. Try to use your Big Chief tablet and crayons so I can understand.

Where did you get your police management training? What job capacity dId you hold that let you receive court admissible confessions? Watch 1Adam12 reruns?

[DeLaSalle]

[quote=gvcop32;655799]

Originally Posted by Nirvana-Guy

Horrible idea. Cars should go as fast as the person buying it wants it. They may not be able to drive the car that fast. but it is cool to brag to your friends abotu how fast your car can go.



Speed limits are mandated by state law, not the municpality...



Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

Drivers’ speed choices impose risks that affect both the probability and severity of crashes. Speed is directly related to injury severity in a crash. The probability of severe injury increases sharply with the impact speed of a vehicle in a collision, reflecting the laws of physics. The risk is even greater when a vehicle strikes a pedestrian, the most vulnerable of road users. Although injury to vehicle occupants in a crash can be mitigated by safety belt use and air bags, the strength of the relationship between speed and crash severity alone is sufficient reason for managing speed.

Speed is also linked to the probability of being in a crash, although the evidence is not as compelling because crashes are complex events that seldom can be attributed to a single factor. Crash involvement on interstate highways and non-limited-access rural roads has been associated with the deviation of the speed of crash-involved vehicles from the average speed of traffic. Crash involvement has also been associated with the speed of travel, at least on certain road types. For example, single-vehicle crash involvement rates on non-limited-access rural roads have been shown to rise with travel speed.

Speeding is a pervasive behavior, with about three-quarters of drivers reporting in a recent national survey they drove over the speed limit on all types of roads within the past month, and one-quarter reporting speeding over the limit on the day of interview.4 Speed data collected by the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) indicates that, on average, 70 percent of motorists are exceeding the posted speed limits.5

I am a nationally certified Crash Reconstruction Expert, if you would like to debate further.

Wow gvcop32:

You are so right...

And FurtherMore:
The Speed-limit in Cities should be 15 mph
And the Interstates should be no more than 35 mph, but "Only" if "Conditions Warrant" such high speeds...

And anyone who violates the rules should be Punished Severely ...

Dear .gov Agent...

Tell the truth...
Traffic Enforcement is the easiest way to generate $$$ and "Claim" it's for "Public Safety"...