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Old 09-10-2009, 10:49 AM
 
2,661 posts, read 2,892,684 times
Reputation: 366

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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
The need for healthcare reform is real - and you are right, it is completely overdue.
The problem I have with this is the very real question of how are we going to pay for it?
How did we pay for Bush's tax cuts?
Or the medicare modernization act.

Those two items cost more than twice what health care reform will cost.
And the cost of those two go directly to the deficit.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:56 AM
 
17,382 posts, read 11,885,796 times
Reputation: 16120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandhillian View Post
What exactly makes you think the Medicare and Social Security Administration have been run so poorly? How do you feel about the way the government has run libraries, fire departments, police departments and the postal service?
Ummmm, they're running out of money?

Libraries, Fire Departments and Police Departments are run by local governments, and don't apply here.

Postal Service - broke, and full of mismanagement.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:01 AM
 
17,382 posts, read 11,885,796 times
Reputation: 16120
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
I think that this thread is proving that Republicans and the Obama haters have no answer.

They have no alternative proposals for true healthcare reform. Yet it doesn't stop them from criticizing a man who is actively trying to make reforms.

The Republicans are like the frat boys who passed their tests by looking over the shoulders of the smart kids in school.
Just a little FYI - disliking the current version of the healthcare (public option in particular) doesn't automatically make you and Obama hater.

Reform proposals have been made over and over: tort reform, the ability to go across state lines for insurance, tax credits to the individual instead of the employer, to name a few. But you're all so busy screaming "Obama hater" to listen.
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:35 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,182,242 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
You must have watched a different speech than I did because he specifically mentioned more than once that people would be able to keep their existing plan if they were happy with it.
This is a lie. Page 16 of the House bill (and my daughter downloaded a copy) specifically states that once the bill becomes law, it will be illegal fo private insurers to sell health insuranc policies.

If you leave your job, or lose your coverage for any reason, you will be forced into the government plan. Private insurance will be phased out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
This is about making sure all american citizens have insurance, all of them.
You're buying into a pack of lies. It is about nothing of the sort. It is about control.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
And like he said, that is a moral issue & one that should've been addressed long ago. But for whatever selfish reason, the right
Stop right there: "the right"? Listen to yourself. You are buying every lie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
...have glossed over that situation & seem to be against a plan that would enable people to have insurance. Weird, I thought the right was the "party of morals"?
Morals? What does this have to do with morals? This isn't a "moral" issue. It is an issue about rights. The right to choose. Isn't the left about "the right to choose"? Hmmmm is there some inconsistancy here?


Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
I know many people who don't have insurance because they can't afford it. How can anyone w/any sort of decency not want better for all?
And you think "government insurance" will be better? Better than what? In countries (Canada, UK) that have "government run so-called health care, have there are more deaths from treatable cancer because treatment was delayed, than in the USA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
I understand many of you probably don't know of anyone who is in that situation which is why you've become so unbelievably stubborn about this, but perhaps you should put yourself in their shoes for once. Or maybe think if this situation were to happen to you, how would you feel? I don't think you'd feel so good knowing there were people out there trying to deny you the right to be able to afford health care.
Sorry. You don't know what you are talking about. Do some research.
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:38 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,182,242 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey View Post
How did we pay for Bush's tax cuts?
Or the medicare modernization act.

Those two items cost more than twice what health care reform will cost.
And the cost of those two go directly to the deficit.
Tax cuts, do not have to be "paid for". It isn't the governments money in the first place!
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:07 PM
 
29,918 posts, read 18,476,320 times
Reputation: 20668
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
I think that this thread is proving that Republicans and the Obama haters have no answer.

They have no alternative proposals for true healthcare reform. Yet it doesn't stop them from criticizing a man who is actively trying to make reforms.

The Republicans are like the frat boys who passed their tests by looking over the shoulders of the smart kids in school.
Repeat- I already told you how. You just don't like the answer

Simple

1. elminate the current medical tort system and replace it with a peer review board

2. eliminate fee for service medicine and use flat salaries with set minimal patient loads per day

3. enroll the uninsured in the current medicare system


Reason it will never happen- trial lawyers own the democratic party. When the host dies, so does the parasite. A good parasite will weaken, but not kill the host.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:19 PM
 
1,995 posts, read 3,363,895 times
Reputation: 15838
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Fire departments, police and libraries are locally controlled. Postal service has always been run poorly.
So you would be okay with public health insurance if it was locally controlled? I think it is wrong for a for-profit entity to be providing health care. If the primary motivator is to make a profit, care concerns will always come second. As an example, we know that the care in non-profit nursing homes has always been better than that in for-profit ones. (Ask anyone who works in that field.)

We have seen the horrible abuses, waste, and horrible customer service that happens when there is not enough governmental regulation of things like utilities, transportation and banks. Jails cost much more than when the government ran them. Whenever we switch to privatization the public ends up paying more. Insurance companies have proved over and over that they will not voluntarily clean up their act.

We know that our economy will never recover without fixing health care and we have a moral obligation to help hard working people who through no fault of their own cannot buy or afford health insurance.

Last edited by Sandhillian; 09-10-2009 at 06:20 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:31 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,934,802 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCaliforniaBear View Post
What should we do?
Tort reform. Reform insurance regulations to allow competition across state lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandhillian View Post
We know that our economy will never recover without fixing health care
Holy Christ Man, what do the two have to do with each other? Am I missing the sarcasism?
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,767 posts, read 4,993,533 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandhillian View Post
So you would be okay with public health insurance if it was locally controlled? I think it is wrong for a for-profit entity to be providing health care. If the primary motivator is to make a profit, care concerns will always come second. As an example, we know that the care in non-profit nursing homes has always been better than that in for-profit ones. (Ask anyone who works in that field.)

We have seen the horrible abuses, waste, and horrible customer service that happens when there is not enough governmental regulation of things like utilities, transportation and banks. Jails cost much more than when the government ran them. Whenever we switch to privatization the public ends up paying more. Insurance companies have proved over and over that they will not voluntarily clean up their act.

We know that our economy will never recover without fixing health care and we have a moral obligation to help hard working people who through no fault of their own cannot buy or afford health insurance.
************************************************** *******
You nailed it! If somebody could sit these posters down and have them review the list of what for-profit hospitals and nursing homes actually pay for materials and meds in comparison to what they charge, they would be
standing in their chairs to root for reform. Neither insurance companies nor
corporate care facilities will stop gouging Americans until they are forced to do so. Oddly, as with savings and loans companies, deregulation has consistently been the GOP mantra. It hasn't worked, and I keep waiting for a Republican to make a detailed speech laying out the health care plan that they have devised. Still waiting.
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Old 09-10-2009, 06:45 PM
 
Location: OB
2,404 posts, read 3,934,802 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
they would be standing in their chairs to root for reform.
Reform and the socialization/nationalization of 1/6 of our economy is not the same. More federal red tape will not reform a thing but bloat it!!!

Although you make a point on staggering profit margins, I could counter-point stating we are the world leaders in developing new medical technology; I read 70% of innovation in the medical industry is made in the United States, I could also point out the staggering time and cost it takes to research & develop pharmaceuticals.
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