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However, when looking at it from a purely capitalist standpoint, Doctors provide a neccessary service, athletes do not. People voluntarily pay for athletics and the consequence of not paying for a ticket is simply not seeing the game live. The consequence for not paying for healthcare could be death.
Medicine should NEVER ever be for profit. Its a rediculous concept, and a big reason we have such embarrassing numbers for live childbirths and deaths from preventable or curable illness/disease.
Wow, who died and left you Karl Marx? Every profession should be capped? By whom, the government? That's not their job.
And you've decided that medicine should NEVER be for profit? Really? I have news for you - we live in a capitialist, FREE society, where every man and woman is free to pursue a living. If you can make money on it, props to you.
Should lawyers be for profit? Entertainers? Grocery stores? Car mechanics?
However, when looking at it from a purely capitalist standpoint, Doctors provide a neccessary service, athletes do not. People voluntarily pay for athletics and the consequence of not paying for a ticket is simply not seeing the game live. The consequence for not paying for healthcare could be death.
Medicine should NEVER ever be for profit. Its a rediculous concept, and a big reason we have such embarrassing numbers for live childbirths and deaths from preventable or curable illness/disease.
Wow. That's communism at work, buddy.
Like it or not, money is a driving factor in our lives. If there's not money in something, our best and brightest won't pursue that as a career. People won't spend their lives creating new, life-saving technologies. Pharmaceutical companies won't pursue new drugs that can cure disease.
It must be nice in your utopia, where everyone does things out of the kindness of their hearts, but consider joining us in the real world.
If you don't want an athlete to make as much money, don't pay them. Don't go to the game, watch it on TV, or buy anything they endorse. If you don't want a doctor to make much money, don't pay them. Don't use their services.
This is a free country, and just because you may not make much money, capping what others make strips away our freedoms and makes us no better than the USSR.
The banks accept the risk that you won't repay the loan. That's what they're putting on the line.
Compensation for "risk" is purely a capitalistic function.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostInTheShell
I have a friend who owns a multi-million dollar business. He had an idea, apparently a good one, and started it with $50 of his own cash and a small loan.
1. He had to "earn" that $50 from someone else giving it to him. Likely this was a result of working for an employer stealing his labor value. Im of course assuming it wasnt some sort of gift or inheritance.
2. The business loan indebted him to stakeholders, who are stealing labor value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostInTheShell
Not only did hepay the money back with interest (well worth it in his mind), but he now lives very comfortably and employs a number of people, paying them a good, though modest, wage for the area...an area with 10%+ percent unemployement right now. Are you suggesting that his employees have been cheated by him, because he pockets the lion's share of the profit?
Yep. If he is making more money then he can directly attribute his labor value to, he is cheating his employees out of labor value. His capital investment is not "worth" anything in a purely labor value sense. Capitalism, through law enforcement, has allowed him to assign some value to simply owning a building, land and tools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostInTheShell
In terms of employment, do you think the town would be better off if he relocated his business?
Probably not, but the town would be better off if the money he is scraping off was redistributed to those he is paying a "modest wage" to. They would demand a far more aggregate number of consumables then your friend, which would circulate more money, and increase demand, and maybe, drop that unemployment number down some.
Your friend is probably putting most of his money in to more passive investments, which largely is just being passed around to make the non producer class wealthy (stock market), while not increasing actual demand at all. Those employees hes robbing would likely buy real merchandise with it.
Wow, who died and left you Karl Marx? Every profession should be capped? By whom, the government? That's not their job.
And you've decided that medicine should NEVER be for profit? Really? I have news for you - we live in a capitialist, FREE society, where every man and woman is free to pursue a living. If you can make money on it, props to you.
Making money on others dying is simply immoral. It goes above and beyond "capitalism".
We are the only post-industrial country on the planet that people routinely die from very curable disease. That is an outright joke and an embarrassment.
Making money on others dying is simply immoral. It goes above and beyond "capitalism".
We are the only post-industrial country on the planet that people routinely die from very curable disease. That is an outright joke and an embarrassment.
While I do agree with you, I don't think pay caps is the answer to that problem.
Implementing single payer will help with SOME of the making money on others dying but trust me, there will always be an industry that makes money off people dying. Hospice care, people that make the drugs that are used to help with pain management in the death process, psychologists who counsel those who have lost a loved one, etc. Doctors will still make good money in a single payer system and some of them might make even more money.
We can't say AHA the reason people die from very curable diseases is because of private insurance. While that is SOME of the problem, some people die from curable diseases because they didn't live a healthy lifestyle. They could have avoided the diseases in the first place by living healthier. While I know some people have genetic problems, 2/3 of our health is due to lifestyle.
Like it or not, money is a driving factor in our lives.
Money is only a driving factor because we are in capitalism. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford
If there's not money in something, our best and brightest won't pursue that as a career.
All it has to do is pay a little more then the next guy, and theyd still pursue it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford
People won't spend their lives creating new, life-saving technologies. Pharmaceutical companies won't pursue new drugs that can cure disease.
Yeah, because we need pharmeceutical companies to pursue drugs (and pharmaceutical companies arent interested in curing anything, just prolonging disorders. We have known about cancer for 1,000's of years, yet they still have no cure......ironic isnt it? I think it also ironic that there are about 10,000 different pills and treatments to "fight symptoms" or "put it in remission".)
Even then, if a pharmeceutical company did come up with a cure for anything, its likely only going to be available to the wealthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford
It must be nice in your utopia, where everyone does things out of the kindness of their hearts, but consider joining us in the real world.
The real world meaning the United States? Because last time I checked, about 75% of the rest of the world, including just about every non-third world country guarantees their citizens healthcare. Here in the US, we continue to deny healthcare as a right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford
If you don't want an athlete to make as much money, don't pay them. Don't go to the game, watch it on TV, or buy anything they endorse. If you don't want a doctor to make much money, don't pay them. Don't use their services.
Dont use the doctor, and die. Thats great. So, you believe healthcare should be a priveledge of the wealthy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevcrawford
This is a free country, and just because you may not make much money, capping what others make strips away our freedoms and makes us no better than the USSR.
You have no clue the history of the USSR. You are a simply McCarthyite believing what you are told through the pipeline. I dont have to patience to once again school another person on the reality of the USSR.
We can't say AHA the reason people die from very curable diseases is because of private insurance. While that is SOME of the problem, some people die from curable diseases because they didn't live a healthy lifestyle. They could have avoided the diseases in the first place by living healthier. While I know some people have genetic problems, 2/3 of our health is due to lifestyle.
Even though people may die as an end result of their lifestyle, and I can agree with that, they routinely bypass preventitive medicine due to cost, which could have saved them long before they ended up in the ER with a heart attack, or with diabetes.
I freaking have insurance, and between 2004 and 2009, I went to the docs 1 time, with a temperature of 104, and I avoid the emergency room at all costs, because I cant even afford the copays. Im sure there are many like me, and then there are the 45 million or whatever the number is uninsured, who go even less.
The number of people underserved by medical care in our country could easily eclipse 100 million people. That is just crazy.
Money is only a driving factor because we are in capitalism. Period.
All it has to do is pay a little more then the next guy, and theyd still pursue it.
Yeah, because we need pharmeceutical companies to pursue drugs (and pharmaceutical companies arent interested in curing anything, just prolonging disorders. We have known about cancer for 1,000's of years, yet they still have no cure......ironic isnt it? I think it also ironic that there are about 10,000 different pills and treatments to "fight symptoms" or "put it in remission".)
Even then, if a pharmeceutical company did come up with a cure for anything, its likely only going to be available to the wealthy.
The real world meaning the United States? Because last time I checked, about 75% of the rest of the world, including just about every non-third world country guarantees their citizens healthcare. Here in the US, we continue to deny healthcare as a right.
Dont use the doctor, and die. Thats great. So, you believe healthcare should be a priveledge of the wealthy?
You have no clue the history of the USSR. You are a simply McCarthyite believing what you are told through the pipeline. I dont have to patience to once again school another person on the reality of the USSR.
I'm not sure how to respond to such ignorance.
I DO love the comment on pharmaceutical companies though. Yeah, I'm sure they're holding off on curing cancer because of the money involved. Just like they didn't find vaccines for polio, the flu, etc.
It's sad how many people are stuck in this little utopia and have no grasp of history, science or the way the real world functions.
What's even worse, is they think they're enlightened.
Even though people may die as an end result of their lifestyle, and I can agree with that, they routinely bypass preventitive medicine due to cost, which could have saved them long before they ended up in the ER with a heart attack, or with diabetes.
I freaking have insurance, and between 2004 and 2009, I went to the docs 1 time, with a temperature of 104, and I avoid the emergency room at all costs, because I cant even afford the copays. Im sure there are many like me, and then there are the 45 million or whatever the number is uninsured, who go even less.
The number of people underserved by medical care in our country could easily eclipse 100 million people. That is just crazy.
The main reason I don't go to the doctor a lot is the cost of the prescription drugs. I have horrible migraines and I'm beginning to develop arthritis (at 19) and I can't afford the prescriptions.
This summer I waited until a skin infection got really bad and we thought it was infected. The cream my doctor prescribed was $90 and it was smaller than the size of my pinky.
Of course I know it could be a lot worse, some people's drugs costs in the thousands every month.
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) and I can't afford the prescriptions.
