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Sounds like the same issue here as with all those people who think that SSI is part of Social Security because it's adminstered by the Social Security Administration.
You are one of the more intelligent posters here from either side. Do you really think it's not a tax?
The mandate to have health insurance is not a tax; the penalty for refusing to obtain health insurance is a tax.
Whether people see an increase in their federal taxes as a result of the passage of health care reform is entirely up to them. Wouldn't it be nice if ALL taxes were like that?
You want to avoid the health care tax/excise tax? Get health insurance.
WASHINGTON — Memo to President Barack Obama: It's a tax. Obama insisted this weekend on national television that requiring people to carry health insurance — and fining them if they don't — isn't the same thing as a tax increase. But the language of Democratic bills to revamp the nation's health care system doesn't quibble. Both the House bill and the Senate Finance Committee proposal clearly state that the fines would be a tax.
I guess even this lie of obama's is too much to swallow.
And he wonders why he can't "get through" to the people.
Just because George is not as quick on his feet as Obama doesn't mean he was wrong. Obama analogized the health care mandate to rising health care premiums. No, Mr. President, they're not the same. If costs go up on a product that's called inflation. When the government forces you to purchase something, that's a tax.
Lol, George couldnt defend his opening position and wouldnt admit that Obama's plan made absolute sense. Health care premiums dont go up because of inflation. There's no correlation between the two bolded sentences. If health insurance companies have to compete their prices will go down. "If the govt forces you to purchase something, that's a tax" - is auto insurance a tax? Auto insurance, for the lack of which you not only can be fined but can get a court record?
Auto insurance is a totally different issue. You are insuring a machine that can and will hurt someone.
All right, health insurance insures a machine that can and will break down and when it does is literally and figuratively ruinously expensive to fix or replace.
The mandate to have health insurance is not a tax; the penalty for refusing to obtain health insurance is a tax.
Whether people see an increase in their federal taxes as a result of the passage of health care reform is entirely up to them. Wouldn't it be nice if ALL taxes were like that?
You want to avoid the health care tax/excise tax? Get health insurance.
Frankly, I am looking forward to the wording remaining unchanged in the legislation. It makes for the perfect target when challenging the law in the courts. If the federal mandate for states to perform background checks was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in the Brady Bill, then the federal government mandating individuals buy health insurance is equally unconstitutional.
See Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997)
It was very obliging of the Democrats to include such unconstitutional language. Now it will not be any problem at all having the entire mess thrown out.
BTW, no state that I'm aware of, mandates ANY form of automobile insurance. There are usually two major kinds of auto insurance: Collision insurance (repairs your own car if you crash) and Liability insurance (repairs the other guy's car, takes care of his hospital bills etc. if you hit him).
Collision insurance is not required in any state.
Liability insurance is also not required in any state that I know of. Most states mandate simply that you demonstrate the financial ability to cover the other party's expenses in the event you crash into him, possibly with injuries, up to a certain dollar amount. If you have, say, $500,000 in the bank and can prove it's always there, or assets that can be easily liquidated to that amount, the states I'm familiar with do NOT require you to purchase liability insurance.
But I do not know the policies of all states. Is there any state out there that does NOT have this exception for people with a lot of assets?
At any rate, auto liability insurance is an apples-and-oranges comparison to health insurance. Health insurance covers you, Auto liability covers everyone else. Auto collision insurance is much closer to health insurance: both cover only you and yours, not any external persons.
And no state in the union requires auto collision insurance. It's not a bad idea to get it, but it's not mandated by law.
Obama's comparison of Health Care plans to auto insurance, and his statements that auto insurance was "required", were either extremely disingenuous or extremely naive. And he's the PRESIDENT OF THE COUNTRY???
Lol, George couldnt defend his opening position and wouldnt admit that Obama's plan made absolute sense. Health care premiums dont go up because of inflation. There's no correlation between the two bolded sentences. If health insurance companies have to compete their prices will go down. "If the govt forces you to purchase something, that's a tax" - is auto insurance a tax? Auto insurance, for the lack of which you not only can be fined but can get a court record?
I think you are forgetting one very important fact about driving and carrying car insurance. Driving is a priviledge, one which is regulated by the government. Because of this fact, they are able to dictate driving laws and mandate the purchase of car insurance to insure other people so that should their personal property/body be damaged in an accident, they will receive compensation.
Life is not a priviledge, life is a right given to us by God, nature, whatever you choose to believe in. Point is, the government has no jurisdiction over life and therefore, has no right to mandate a person carry health insurance. Unlike car insurance, health insurance is insurance for your own personal welfare. If you choose not to have it, you are not harming others in the process. Car insurance is mandated to protect others who may incur damages due to your incompetence. The two are in completely different arenas, something Obama needs to wise up to. Because using the car insurance argument to justify mandating health insurance is just silly. Life is not a priviledge given by the US government, and they have no right to dictate how I live my life as long as my activities do not infringe upon other US citizen's rights. Me not carrying health insurance does not cause harm to others, only myself. Thus, it should be left in my discretion. Thus far, I have been quite good at paying my own way when it comes to medical costs, and have actually saved thousands I would have dumped into an insurance plan. So I say the government should simply continue enjoying the already massive controls they have put on our people, and leave this one to us. Because frankly, it just isn't their decision to make.
Key notes: Health insurance and car insurance are in two totally different spectrums. I wish Obama could understand that, so that he would stop making himself look so ignorant while trying to push his agenda. Unless, that is, he can produce documents stating that I was created as a result of a government project and therefore am the sole property of the United States government. Otherwise, he's barking up the wrong tree and trying to assume power he and his administration were never meant to have. By all means, we should do some things to help tame the healthcare beast. But giving our freedom of choice up in favor of government control is not a step forward, it's a step backward.
All right, health insurance insures a machine that can and will break down and when it does is literally and figuratively ruinously expensive to fix or replace.
Which is a personal matter that doesn't cause harm to a second or third party. That is the point. Car insurance is there to insure other people are compensated for any damages incurred. And since driving is a priviledge and not a right, the government has every right to regulate it. Life is not a priviledge, and health insurance in no way, shape, or form does what car insurance does. See the difference yet?
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