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BTW, no state that I'm aware of, mandates ANY form of automobile insurance. There are usually two major kinds of auto insurance: Collision insurance (repairs your own car if you crash) and Liability insurance (repairs the other guy's car, takes care of his hospital bills etc. if you hit him).
Collision insurance is not required in any state.
Liability insurance is also not required in any state that I know of. Most states mandate simply that you demonstrate the financial ability to cover the other party's expenses in the event you crash into him, possibly with injuries, up to a certain dollar amount. If you have, say, $500,000 in the bank and can prove it's always there, or assets that can be easily liquidated to that amount, the states I'm familiar with do NOT require you to purchase liability insurance.
But I do not know the policies of all states. Is there any state out there that does NOT have this exception for people with a lot of assets?
At any rate, auto liability insurance is an apples-and-oranges comparison to health insurance. Health insurance covers you, Auto liability covers everyone else. Auto collision insurance is much closer to health insurance: both cover only you and yours, not any external persons.
And no state in the union requires auto collision insurance. It's not a bad idea to get it, but it's not mandated by law.
Obama's comparison of Health Care plans to auto insurance, and his statements that auto insurance was "required", were either extremely disingenuous or extremely naive. And he's the PRESIDENT OF THE COUNTRY???
There are two other differences between auto insurance and the proposed health care insurance:
If you choose not to drive, you are not required to have any auto insurance or prove financial responsibility. Nobody gets the luxury of choice under the government mandated health care plan; and
States have the constitutional authority to impose mandates, whereas Congress does not. See Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997).
Mortgage lenders who demand Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI) are not the government, but they mandate PMI if you want a mortgage and don't put at least 20% down. Call it a tax if you want, that doesn't make it unwise to have PMI. If YOU whiners were the lenders, there's no doubt in my mind that YOU would mandate the borrowers carry PMI.
Mortgage lenders who demand Home Owners Insurance (HOI) are not the government, but they mandate HOI for the full term of the mortgage if you want to get a mortgage. Call it a tax if you want, that doesn't make it unwise to have HOI. If YOU whiners were the lenders, there's no doubt in my mind that YOU would mandate the borrowers carry HOI.
Any parent with any brains will carry at least some term insurance to protect their spouse and children until the kids are grown and gone. That's not a mandate of the government or anyone else, but it is good common sense financial planning, and it's not a tax.
Requiring auto insurance (AI) can be considered a mandate or tax if you want to, but it's darned good sense to cover yourself with auto insurance. Call it a tax if you want, that doesn't make it unwise to have AI. If YOU whiners were hit by a drunk driver, there's no doubt in my mind that YOU would love having the drunk's AI pay those bills, instead of yourself.
Requiring health insurance can be considered a mandate or tax if you want to, but it's darned good sense to cover yourself.
Problem is that lots of people are too cheap to pay their own way, even if they have the money. There's no way of knowing if or when you will suffer a problem with your health, so these people who opt to not carry insurance end up costing the rest of us money (indirectly) when they break their neck skiing or fall off a ladder or slice their hand in the kitchen and show up at the Emergency Room and stick us with the bill. It's wise to be covered, but to level the playing field, everyone should play and pay their fair share.
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You are one of the more intelligent posters here from either side. Do you really think it's not a tax?
It would certainly not be a tax simply because the IRS collected it. Taxes meanwhile are defined as a levy or assessment against a person or other entity on account of some possession or action. The payment contemplated here is in respect of not owning something and not doing something. It is hard to see how that can fit into the traditional definition of a tax. That said, Congress can define the payments any way they like.
It would certainly not be a tax simply because the IRS collected it. Taxes meanwhile are defined as a levy or assessment against a person or other entity on account of some possession or action. The payment contemplated here is in respect of not owning something and not doing something. It is hard to see how that can fit into the traditional definition of a tax. That said, Congress can define the payments any way they like.
I think you are forgetting one very important fact about driving and carrying car insurance. Driving is a priviledge, one which is regulated by the government. Because of this fact, they are able to dictate driving laws and mandate the purchase of car insurance to insure other people so that should their personal property/body be damaged in an accident, they will receive compensation.
Life is not a priviledge, life is a right given to us by God, nature, whatever you choose to believe in. Point is, the government has no jurisdiction over life and therefore, has no right to mandate a person carry health insurance. Unlike car insurance, health insurance is insurance for your own personal welfare. If you choose not to have it, you are not harming others in the process. Car insurance is mandated to protect others who may incur damages due to your incompetence. The two are in completely different arenas, something Obama needs to wise up to. Because using the car insurance argument to justify mandating health insurance is just silly. Life is not a priviledge given by the US government, and they have no right to dictate how I live my life as long as my activities do not infringe upon other US citizen's rights. Me not carrying health insurance does not cause harm to others, only myself. Thus, it should be left in my discretion. Thus far, I have been quite good at paying my own way when it comes to medical costs, and have actually saved thousands I would have dumped into an insurance plan. So I say the government should simply continue enjoying the already massive controls they have put on our people, and leave this one to us. Because frankly, it just isn't their decision to make.
Key notes: Health insurance and car insurance are in two totally different spectrums. I wish Obama could understand that, so that he would stop making himself look so ignorant while trying to push his agenda. Unless, that is, he can produce documents stating that I was created as a result of a government project and therefore am the sole property of the United States government. Otherwise, he's barking up the wrong tree and trying to assume power he and his administration were never meant to have. By all means, we should do some things to help tame the healthcare beast. But giving our freedom of choice up in favor of government control is not a step forward, it's a step backward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH
Which is a personal matter that doesn't cause harm to a second or third party. That is the point. Car insurance is there to insure other people are compensated for any damages incurred. And since driving is a priviledge and not a right, the government has every right to regulate it. Life is not a priviledge, and health insurance in no way, shape, or form does what car insurance does. See the difference yet?
It doesnt matter if driving is a right, a privilege or a punishment. If you're driving it's foolish not to have car insurance. I think someone on here said in some states you dont legally have to have it, you dont get ticketed or fined - but you're better off if you have it, just in case. That's what insurance is all about. (Car insurance is also there to protect you financially, not just other people.)
Health insurance is there to be sure you and your family are not financially decimated when "damages" occur. It is less expensive in the long run to have it than to not have it. It's just the realistic, mature thing to force yourself to accept, life being what it is and all.
As far as deliberately not insuring oneself, when that person finally crashes into that bus, he and the second and third parties in his life are going to wish they "only" had a $4,000 bill to pay instead of a $40,000 bill. Or worse. For example,
Kent Snyder, RIP (http://www.kylevarner.com/2008/07/20/kent-snyder-rip/ - broken link)
So which is more expensive, insurance or no insurance?
I guess even this lie of obama's is too much to swallow.
And he wonders why he can't "get through" to the people.
He seems to be getting through to the majority of Americans just fine. Those who choose not to understand via willful ignorance can never be helped (other than perhaps some form of shock treatment.)
Politicians dont keep that little fact from stopping them from entering into all kinds of new mandates, followed by increased taxes, ooh I mean fees, (since I guess some think its not truly a tax)
The only thing more laughable than this abuse of power by whoever hold Congress/WH, is those who defend the continuous increases as "not a tax"
Mortgage lenders who demand Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI) are not the government, but they mandate PMI if you want a mortgage and don't put at least 20% down. Call it a tax if you want, that doesn't make it unwise to have PMI. If YOU whiners were the lenders, there's no doubt in my mind that YOU would mandate the borrowers carry PMI.
Mortgage lenders who demand Home Owners Insurance (HOI) are not the government, but they mandate HOI for the full term of the mortgage if you want to get a mortgage. Call it a tax if you want, that doesn't make it unwise to have HOI. If YOU whiners were the lenders, there's no doubt in my mind that YOU would mandate the borrowers carry HOI.
Any parent with any brains will carry at least some term insurance to protect their spouse and children until the kids are grown and gone. That's not a mandate of the government or anyone else, but it is good common sense financial planning, and it's not a tax.
Requiring auto insurance (AI) can be considered a mandate or tax if you want to, but it's darned good sense to cover yourself with auto insurance. Call it a tax if you want, that doesn't make it unwise to have AI. If YOU whiners were hit by a drunk driver, there's no doubt in my mind that YOU would love having the drunk's AI pay those bills, instead of yourself.
Requiring health insurance can be considered a mandate or tax if you want to, but it's darned good sense to cover yourself.
Problem is that lots of people are too cheap to pay their own way, even if they have the money. There's no way of knowing if or when you will suffer a problem with your health, so these people who opt to not carry insurance end up costing the rest of us money (indirectly) when they break their neck skiing or fall off a ladder or slice their hand in the kitchen and show up at the Emergency Room and stick us with the bill. It's wise to be covered, but to level the playing field, everyone should play and pay their fair share.
I agree with your last paragraph. There's a simple solution. If you don't have coverage, you don't get treatment for non life threatening issues unless you pay cash at the government rates. Why not that?
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