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Wow, I had no idea that this was such a controversial topic on here. Sorry I missed it!
As a smoker, I have mixed emotions. I certainly understand a non-smoker's dislike for the smell and other problems associate with second-hand smoke. Should it be banned? No, at this point, too many people are addicted to it and throwing people in jail for "Possession of cigarettes with the intent to distribute" would be ridiculous. The prison's are already overcrowded as it is. Should we be allowed to smoke in our own homes? Yes, but I have problems with those who do around small children. Do I dislike the fact I can't smoke in a bar in a lot of places? Well, yes, it's very inconvenient to have to go outside and stand in the rain/snow/heat. But, I find that when I drink I smoke ten times the amount I normally would and I usually end up feeling like utter crap the next day. So, limiting me to the outside premises only is nice because I don't feel so horrible the next day. I only smoke when I "really need" one and the amounts of secondhand smoke in bar that is no longer there probably helps as well. As I said, I am mixed about the topic because I do somewhat enjoy it at times although I realize the harmful effects it has on me.
Are you kidding me, there are actually people out there who want to throw smokers in Jail?????
I really really hope your kidding? Right? You have got to be kidding, with all the criminals out there? The rapists, the murders, the theives, the child molesters...and how bout those two criminals that broke into a doctors home, tortured his wife and two children, then burnt the house? They're dead. And people out there are actually complaining about smoking? Unbelievable? This is my point, there are more and more people dissatisifed with their own lives or very uneducated and misinformed? Whew???
There are less and less smokers every year...more and more people are quiting?????
There are less and less places where a person can smoke inside? That's still ok, I don't believe people mind smoking outside...I believe most smokers consider that to be fair and ok, to me, this is a settled issue.
Yanno, if I were a smoker, at this point, I'd stand my ground, and form a group for smokers...and rise up against these people...these bullies who will not be happy until they get everything....this is a perfect example of why wars are fought....and people die...b/c people are not able to compromise and think.
To take this any futher, is simply insane....especially when, there are more, way more important issues threatening our country...way more.
Bravo! The most disturbing part to me is that so many people talk about how they find this ban and that ban acceptable, mainly because they're not affected by the consequences. They're clearly not thinking it through. Because once you say it's OK to ban A and B, you're also telling your leaders that it's OK to ban Y and Z, too ... it's a slippery slope. Watch how many people who thought banning A and B was OK get fired up with the ban on Y and Z, because banning Y and Z affects their lives. All you can do is sit back and say, "I told you so."
Living in a free society means you have to accept certain risks and put up with certain behaviors that you may not like.
For the record, I'm not a smoker, and I never have been.
People need to start using their heads. I am truly amazed most people think that this ban is just about smoking. Thank you for having the foresight to see the repercussions of bans in a free society.
Friggin' taxpayers should have no say in what legal activities are allowed in one's business.
Amaznjohn:
Once again you're right! When the business I run goes under, the taxpayers can pay for the bankruptcy! I was doing fine until the ban was enacted. It didn't go to vote in my county and can't seem to recall a vote statewide. If the question was asked, "Should the government have the right to tell the private business sector what legal activities they may offer?" Most people, I think, would say, "NO".
People need to start using their heads. I am truly amazed most people think that this ban is just about smoking. Thank you for having the foresight to see the repercussions of bans in a free society.
For the record, I am a smoker.
Smoker or not, they are not bad awful people, and their 2nd hand smoke is not hurting anyone, I don't care what studies show....its stupid propaganda...I wonder if they measured the air quality, what it would show? I wonder if they went to any factory, in the U.S. and measured the air quality, wonder what it would show? I live near one, it's stinks awful and you can't get away from it, and whatever they manufacture, they do it later in the evening so it isn't as noticable...I ponder what in the world if we'd study our drinking water what they'd find in it...? I ponder all the accidents involving trucks carrying toxins, that you don't hear about? I ponder most of all, the chemicals in foods, diet sodas, iceas...and our meats, and what they spray our vegies with...? I challenge anyone to walk into a children's hospital and see all the children in their with diseases that are going to kill them, but it isn't from smoking...?
Smoker or not, they are not bad awful people, and their 2nd hand smoke is not hurting anyone, I don't care what studies show....its stupid propaganda...I wonder if they measured the air quality, what it would show? I wonder if they went to any factory, in the U.S. and measured the air quality, wonder what it would show? I live near one, it's stinks awful and you can't get away from it, and whatever they manufacture, they do it later in the evening so it isn't as noticable...I ponder what in the world if we'd study our drinking water what they'd find in it...? I ponder all the accidents involving trucks carrying toxins, that you don't hear about? I ponder most of all, the chemicals in foods, diet sodas, iceas...and our meats, and what they spray our vegies with...? I challenge anyone to walk into a children's hospital and see all the children in their with diseases that are going to kill them, but it isn't from smoking...?
Sheesh? When will they ever learn, huh?
Creme
I finally get to chat with you. I agree with you. I've run a restaurant & bar for 29 years and have worked for the government as a researcher (a National Lab). I find that all the research about second hand smoke is misrepresented and misinterpreted. There is no definitive proof. I feel that there are so many other factors (you've mentioned some) that are not taken into consideration. They (the gov't) only want to control this one issue because they can be successful by making it illegal. Yet, they cannot control the more important issues that are more of a detriment to the health of the population. Do ya really think government can learn?
Last edited by Castaway; 07-29-2007 at 07:08 PM..
Reason: mispell
Thanks for writing! I've always viewed bars and casinos as places where adults can go to "let down their hair" too!!
When smoking bans are enacted, the whole culture changes....It's not the same anymore. Why bother going out at all? I know bars can really take a "big hit" and this is sad!
Some of the bars in our area have patios with misting systems and they are doing ok so far...Even in 110 to 120 degree heat! (Here in Arizona!) But, restaurants and bars that don't have patios aren't doing as well now. Claire[/QUOTE
Claire,
I am trying to create a comfortable patio for our smoking patrons, a smokers' haven. I just hope that the non-smoking patrons don't make a scene about it. Afterall, they have the whole inside, restaurant and bar.
Good luck with your patio. Wish you the BEST! I hope you don't run into a lot of red tape (and expenses) getting the patio "approved" by your city planners.
What's really upsetting is when bars and restaurants build patios for smokers. (And spend big bucks to do it!) But the very next year, their city decides to ban smoking on patios too....I've seen this happen too much. Hope this doesn't happen to you.
You sound like such a nice person. I'm sorry your sales are down due to the smoking ban. I know it's really hard to compete with corporate chain restaurants these days. We couldn't make it when we had our stores because everyone in our area shops at "Wal-Mart" (exclusively)...and "mom & pop"l stores don't stand a a chance. Things are so different these days. In the past, small business owners received more support and respect from the people in their community.
Thanks again for all you've shared in this topic. Nice to have you here. Wishing you the BEST!! Thanks, Claire
I finally get to chat with you. I agree with you. I've run a restaurant & bar for 29 years and have worked for the government as a researcher (a National Lab). I find that all the research about second hand smoke is misrepresented and misinterpreted. There is no definitive proof. I feel that there are so many other factors (you've mentioned some) that are not taken into consideration. They (the gov't) only want to control this one issue because they can be successful by making it illegal. Yet, they cannot control the more important issues that are more of a detriment to the health of the population. Do ya really think government can learn?
you are welcome to chat with me anytime...just email me whenever you like.
I wouldn't care if you were against smoking, that would be your perogative and opinion, what I care about are silly fools who like to control the lives of others...b/c they can't, I suppose control their own lives...
Also, and most importantly, I'm so sorry your business is hurting...for some of these people, I'm so sorry and embarrased to say, they don't know what the word compromise means....they just want they're way and don't care how they are affecting the livelihood of others...it is a shame....
I also believe the government won't make it illegal, b/c they are making way to much money off the taxpayers...as they continually push up the taxes...
Strange, they cut back on funding for social services, police officers, grants for infostructure...but, tax and tax and tax...where in the you know what is our money going...their paychecks...to their special interest groups...
Here in Virginia, they wanted to ban smoking from restaurants. However, in order to serve alcohol, an establishment must also make a certain amount in sales of FOOD. So, by a technicallity, ALL bars (including the houses of ill repute) were considered restaurants. So, who would go to a bar, if they couldn't enjoy a beer and cig?
Now, I don't smoke, but I know that a LOT of people do the above. Or how some people finish a big dinner at TGI Fridays and finish the meal with a smoke.
As for airplanes, I can understand. Small enclosed space. But then they banned the Nicotine drink. It's getting to be pretty bad though.
Soon, you'll only be able to smoke in your own household... unless you have kids. Then it's child abuse/neglect...
Good luck with your patio. Wish you the BEST! I hope you don't run into a lot of red tape (and expenses) getting the patio "approved" by your city planners.
What's really upsetting is when bars and restaurants build patios for smokers. (And spend big bucks to do it!) But the very next year, their city decides to ban smoking on patios too....I've seen this happen too much. Hope this doesn't happen to you.
You sound like such a nice person. I'm sorry your sales are down due to the smoking ban. I know it's really hard to compete with corporate chain restaurants these days. We couldn't make it when we had our stores because everyone in our area shops at "Wal-Mart" (exclusively)...and "mom & pop"l stores don't stand a a chance. Things are so different these days. In the past, small business owners received more support and respect from the people in their community.
Thanks again for all you've shared in this topic. Nice to have you here. Wishing you the BEST!! Thanks, Claire
Don't even start me on Wal-Mart. My town has tried to keep them out. Successful, so far!
The only snafu with the patio, so far, has been in the ground, roots. Hopefully, the state ban in NM won't include outside smoking. I know some of the city ordinances (ABQ) already ban smoking in public parks, patios & streets. The controversial municipal golf course smoking ban (Mayor Chavez) was over turned because the city golf course would lose business to private courses that allow smoking. Funny, how the city can overturn the ban when they might lose money but, we can't in private business. - Sue (Castaway)
I've enjoyed being a part of the discussion. - Sue (Castaway)
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