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Old 09-22-2009, 08:38 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,276,662 times
Reputation: 1893

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertGibbs View Post
nobody champions destroying the planet... The debate is over who's going to control it.
LOTS of people champion destroying the planet. They generally deny that climate change exists (thereby creating obstacles in addressing the urgency of the issue, as a nation and as a people); they think that business' first priority is to produce profit for shareholders, even if creating that profit means laying waste to the planet (through the creation of "externalities" that can be ignored through legal loopholes created by the lifting of environmental regulations); they believe that commitment to a clean planet is silly "liberal" talk (irrespective of the somber news coming from the scientific community). The American people, in general, are completely ignorant about ecology, and American society functions as though Nature is an afterthought. How Nature works, the extent of our interdependence with it; the extent to which our health--both short-term and long-term--depends on its health, etc. All alien concepts to most Americans. Therefore, they spin out weird conspiracy theories, dismiss most environmental concerns, can't see how our economy is threatened--long-term--by growing environmental damage. Our culture is--de facto--anti-environment and seems hell-bent not only on leaving a weakened planet to the next generation, but "champions" the ignorance that will ensure it.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:39 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,120,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
It might interest you to know that a significant portion of "the unmitigated pollution coming from China" is the result of shipping our garbage and cast-off electronics to them, as well as outsourcing American business to China. China has been selected, by most large multinational manufacturers, as the cheapest place for manufacturing (topping its favorability list is the low labor cost and the lax environmental regulations). China's position, therefore, as the world's greatest polluter is, in large part, our fault. You might want to read Jared Diamond's "Collapse." Good chapter on China. Whole books is very good, actually.
I guess it is rather like believing in "Creationism" Some people are not able to comprehend the chain of events that lead to their ability to buy cheap garbage and the repercussions and devestating effects it has on the planet.
Maybe they think their big screen TV's are born in a cabbage patch.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:44 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,276,662 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Oh darn!! Here come the blame the US for everything people swinging with all their might.

How do you get this idea? We haven't forced them to do all that. They do it to make money, but we didn't hold a gun to their collective heads. It gets old listening to you people blaming the US for everything like this.
The point is: If most of the entire world's manufacturing is located in China, it stands to reason that an enormous concentration of pollution, and rapid degradation of the environment, would result. Especially since China is a country will very low levels of environmental protection (one of their attractive features, for the manufacturers). And, unfortunately, it will affect not only China, but us, as well. If we keep going at this rate of unfettered--however "cheap"--production, the next generation will be wearing face masks in THIS nation, not only in China.

It's common sense. The U.S. and other developing nations cannot outsource their manufacturing without contributing to the development of grave (and global) environmental damage.
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Old 09-22-2009, 08:46 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,276,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
I guess it is rather like believing in "Creationism" Some people are not able to comprehend the chain of events that lead to their ability to buy cheap garbage and the repercussions and devestating effects it has on the planet.
Maybe they think their big screen TV's are born in a cabbage patch.
Hey there.

You might enjoy this video on what's happening in China:

Edward Burtynsky on manufactured landscapes | Video on TED.com
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:11 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,039,086 times
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Yea that's it, we're to blame for everything that is wrong in this world. The Chinese quest to become the greatest economy on the planet wouldn't have anything to do with it.

China has no interest in creating the business climate that manufacturers face here.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:26 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,276,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Yea that's it, we're to blame for everything that is wrong in this world. The Chinese quest to become the greatest economy on the planet wouldn't have anything to do with it.

China has no interest in creating the business climate that manufacturers face here.
China's "interest" is irrelevant to the role the West plays in fulfilling that "interest"--and creating a dangerous environment in the process.

To blame China for the environmental damage that OUR business community, as well as that of other developed nations, actually creates through outsourcing is stupidity in the extreme. To make ever-increasing profits, Western business is willing to enrich China and damage the planet--putting the West in future political, economic, and environmental danger. It is what it is. To deny it is to think reactively and defensively. "Like teenagers," in fact--rather than adults.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:27 PM
 
9,408 posts, read 11,929,707 times
Reputation: 12440
Hey, the gov't is throwing money around like it's going out of style. While they are at it, they should heavily subsidize private solar panels for homeowner's roofs. There's more than enough solar energy to go around, it would take a tremendous load off the electrical grids and plants, and it's clean as a bonus!
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:29 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,276,662 times
Reputation: 1893
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Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
Hey, the gov't is throwing money around like it's going out of style. While they are at it, they should heavily subsidize private solar panels for homeowner's roofs. There's more than enough solar energy to go around, it would take a tremendous load off the electrical grids and plants, and it's clean as a bonus!
Agreed. But since our government officials are owned by the oil and coal industries, any attempt to do so would be immediately shot down. No such bill would even make it out of committee.

Campaign finance reform. Public financing only of congressional campaigns. No private or corporate donations allowed. Until that day, our Congress is bought and sold.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:42 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,039,086 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
China's "interest" is irrelevant to the role the West plays in fulfilling that "interest"--and creating a dangerous environment in the process.
Come talk to me when the spineless cowards in Washington get some backbone.
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:44 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,039,086 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11thHour View Post
Hey, the gov't is throwing money around like it's going out of style. While they are at it, they should heavily subsidize private solar panels for homeowner's roofs. There's more than enough solar energy to go around, it would take a tremendous load off the electrical grids and plants, and it's clean as a bonus!
A $30 to $40K investment could supply a good portion of your electric needs in an average house.
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